What's the problem with my wine install?

jammanuser · Post by **jammanuser** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:36 pm

i'm trying to install wine on my recently installed ubuntu 8.10, which i installed using wubi-installer to install it on top of my Vista OS, but it wont work!

the first time i tried it, i did it with the first method, i.e. adding the repositories in Software Sources, and then ATTEMPTING to download and save Scott Richie's key to my desktop by clicking on that link on the download page...but it just opened up in a web page, and i couldn't figure out how to download it using that method!

next i tried the command line instructions, following it all the way up to the "T", and that time i managed to get Scott Richie's key in Software Sources, but when i tried to install Wine afterwards, by clicking the install link on the download page, but i got some kind of error! i thought i might be able to go around it, using the Add/Remove feature in ubuntu, but it still wouldn't work! i even tried synaptic, but still obtained an error, saying it had failed to install!

Does anyone know what could be the problem, or if wine can even install on such a setup, i.e. ubuntu being installed on top of Vista, using wubi-installer?????

Thanks to all honest replies!

Vincent Povirk · Post by **Vincent Povirk** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:14 pm

Yes, Wine can be installed on top of Wubi.

What errors are you getting? Take a screenshot if you have to.

Vincent Povirk

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:36 pm

jammanuser wrote:i'm trying to install wine on my recently installed ubuntu 8.10, which i installed using wubi-installer to install it on top of my Vista OS

Wine does not support Wubi installs. You have to use real Linux file system.

jammanuser · Post by **jammanuser** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:01 pm

ok...uhh...i'm getting two conflicting answers here!!! which one is correct???? does wine work on top of wubi or not?????

Looking forward to next comment...

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:40 pm

jammanuser wrote:ok...uhh...i'm getting two conflicting answers here!!! which one is correct???? does wine work on top of wubi or not?????

Looking forward to next comment...

Wine does NOT like NTFS filesystem. And it does NOT support everything required. DO NOT use Wubi with Wine.

Gert van den Berg · Post by **Gert van den Berg** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:42 pm

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:36 AM, vitamin <[email protected]> wrote:

jammanuser wrote:
i'm trying to install wine on my recently installed ubuntu 8.10, which i installed using wubi-installer to install it on top of my Vista OS
Wine does not support Wubi installs. You have to use real Linux file system.

Wubi seems to be using ext3 on a loopmounted file.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=852134

AFAIK (which may not be correct), it should support all the normal
ext3 features that Wine would be using? (If the home folder is on that
partition and not, say, a mount --bind version of the NTFS My
Documents....)

Running things from the NTFS partition will probably be problematic though...

Gert

Vincent Povirk · Post by **Vincent Povirk** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:51 pm

vitamin: Where is the documentation of this? What, specifically, are
the filesystem limitations in Wubi that make Wine not function
properly, and how can you observe them in a real app?

This should be on the download page and in the FAQ.

The only specific filesystem-related issue I know of is that Steam
does not run from ntfs, and 8.10 should have a new enough kernel that
it shouldn't matter (according to the note on the appdb page, and
assuming the same issue affects Wubi somehow).

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:09 am

Vincent Povirk wrote:vitamin: Where is the documentation of this? What, specifically, are
the filesystem limitations in Wubi that make Wine not function
properly, and how can you observe them in a real app?

This should be on the download page and in the FAQ.

The only specific filesystem-related issue I know of is that Steam
does not run from ntfs, and 8.10 should have a new enough kernel that
it shouldn't matter (according to the note on the appdb page, and
assuming the same issue affects Wubi somehow).

My understanding of Wubi was that it's using NTFS directly. If it creates ext3 out of a loopback device then it should work fine.

Of course same restrictions apply to running applications directly from windows partition no matter Wubi or not : http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#head-497f1a2 ... 2c7767afa2

jammanuser, since you having problems installing Wine - you are asking in the wrong place. It's the problem with your OS, package manager or Wine binary package. Neither of those covered on this forum.

jammanuser · Post by **jammanuser** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:53 am

vitamin wrote:
Vincent Povirk wrote:vitamin: Where is the documentation of this? What, specifically, are
the filesystem limitations in Wubi that make Wine not function
properly, and how can you observe them in a real app?

This should be on the download page and in the FAQ.

The only specific filesystem-related issue I know of is that Steam
does not run from ntfs, and 8.10 should have a new enough kernel that
it shouldn't matter (according to the note on the appdb page, and
assuming the same issue affects Wubi somehow).
My understanding of Wubi was that it's using NTFS directly. If it creates ext3 out of a loopback device then it should work fine.

Of course same restrictions apply to running applications directly from windows partition no matter Wubi or not : http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#head-497f1a2 ... 2c7767afa2

jammanuser, since you having problems installing Wine - you are asking in the wrong place. It's the problem with your OS, package manager or Wine binary package. Neither of those covered on this forum.

vitamin: is the line u were referring to?

Wine is not designed to interact with an existing Windows installation.

WARNING: Do not try to configure Wine to point to your actual Windows C:\ drive. We have tried to make this hard to do so you probably cannot do it by accident. If you do this, Wine may or may not continue to operate. Your Windows install will be 100 percent dead due to wine overwriting critical Windows files. The only way to fix Windows after this has happened is to run a reinstall of Windows.

if so, then i don't think that that can be used to claim that wine doesn't work on ntfs file system, since it is after all referring to trying to configure Wine to point to my Windows C:\ drive, not actually stating that programs installed under wubi don't work on Wine!

if not, then please explain!

jammanuser · Post by **jammanuser** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:04 am

vitamin wrote:
My understanding of Wubi was that it's using NTFS directly. If it creates ext3 out of a loopback device then it should work fine.

Of course same restrictions apply to running applications directly from windows partition no matter Wubi or not : http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#head-497f1a2 ... 2c7767afa2

jammanuser, since you having problems installing Wine - you are asking in the wrong place. It's the problem with your OS, package manager or Wine binary package. Neither of those covered on this forum.

vitamin: is the line u were referring to?

Wine is not designed to interact with an existing Windows installation.

WARNING: Do not try to configure Wine to point to your actual Windows C:\ drive. We have tried to make this hard to do so you probably cannot do it by accident. If you do this, Wine may or may not continue to operate. Your Windows install will be 100 percent dead due to wine overwriting critical Windows files. The only way to fix Windows after this has happened is to run a reinstall of Windows.

if so, then i don't think that that can be used to claim that wine doesn't work on ntfs file system, since it is after all referring to trying to configure Wine to point to my Windows C:\ drive, not actually stating that programs installed under wubi don't work on Wine!

here's quote from a post on the ubuntu forums, concerning what file system wubi uses:

Smile Re: Wubi file system question!

Originally Posted by ago View Post
The Ubunutu filesystem is ext3 and is visible as /dev/loop0 (or loop1)
The filesystem itself is inside of the file /host/ubuntu/disks/root.disk
Where /host is the mountpoint of the containing windows device (usually ntfs).

You can use `sudo losetup -a` or `cat /proc/mounts` to gather more info.
Thanks ago.
I also found out this way:
I went to System > KInfoCenter and discovered my Kubuntu is installed on a ext3 file system.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=852134

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:52 am

jammanuser wrote:
Wine is not designed to interact with an existing Windows installation.

WARNING: Do not try to configure Wine to point to your actual Windows C:\ drive.

if so, then i don't think that that can be used to claim that wine doesn't work on ntfs file system

I'm not sure what you trying to say? The above warning applies to real windows' c: drive regardless of the file system.

Wine doesn't like NTFS or FAT for number of reasons. The biggest one was the limited functionality of mmap, which should be fixed in latest kernel and ntfs-3g drivers. However there are few other bugs in bugzilla that point to some problems with NTFS/FAT.

jammanuser · Post by **jammanuser** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:02 pm

vitamin wrote:
jammanuser wrote:
Wine is not designed to interact with an existing Windows installation.

WARNING: Do not try to configure Wine to point to your actual Windows C:\ drive.

if so, then i don't think that that can be used to claim that wine doesn't work on ntfs file system
I'm not sure what you trying to say? The above warning applies to real windows' c: drive regardless of the file system.

exactly!!! the warning does not even mention the file system, so that's why i don't understand why u would use a statement like that to back up a claim that Wine does not work on NTFS file system!!!

jammanuser · Post by **jammanuser** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:07 pm

vitamin wrote: Wine doesn't like NTFS or FAT for number of reasons.

YOU say that it doesn't like it, yet need i remind u that u haven't produced any evidence so far to back up ur claim??? we have only ur word that says that Wine doesn't work on that type of file system! no one else has yet verified it other than u!!!

not trying to call u a liar by any means, but i think the point needed to be addressed!! until someone else actually confirms that Wine does not work on NTFS file system, like ur claiming, then i'm going to take ur statement with a grain of salt, if u know what i mean!!

James Mckenzie · Post by **James Mckenzie** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:43 pm

jammanuser <[email protected]> at Nov 25, 2008 10:02 AM (MST) wrote about Re: What's the problem with my wine install?

vitamin wrote:
jammanuser wrote:
if so, then i don't think that that can be used to claim that wine doesn't work on ntfs file system
I'm not sure what you trying to say? The above warning applies to real windows' c: drive regardless of the file system.
exactly!!! the warning does not even mention the file system, so that's why i don't understand why >u would use a statement like that to back up a claim that Wine does not work on NTFS file >system!!!

Simple. Wine developed and configured for Linux will not work with NTFS for a varity of reasons. What this means is that you CANNOT install Wine on a NTFS partition and expect it to work. You MUST install it to a LINUX EXT3 partition. Now, here is the problem as I see it: Wubi actually creates an ext3 partition as a hidden file on your NTFS partition. Wine will install to the ext3 parition, but you will not be able to WRITE to the NTFS partition. You must install all applications to the pseudo-C: partition that Wine creates in order to run them. Sorry, but that is the way that this works, for now. Do not blame Wine as the problem appears to be the way that the NTFS Linux drivers work. Also, it is true that you SHOULD not map your existing C: drive to be the C: drive under Wine, it will not work. HOWEVER, after you install your applications to Wine you MAY attempt to map your Vista C:\Program Files directory to another drive letter, but this is not warrantied to work or do anything other than mess up your Wine installation. So, what do you do:
1. Install Wine to your Linux partition.
2. Install all the applications you want to use to Wine's C:\Program Files directory which exists on the Linux partition.
3. Run your applications from Wine's C:\ directory. Linux has problems executing programs from a NTFS partition, even Linux applications.
4. Save data as applicable.

(Isn't this in the FAQ?)

James McKenzie

jammanuser · Post by **jammanuser** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:10 pm

James Mckenzie wrote:jammanuser <[email protected]> at Nov 25, 2008 10:02 AM (MST) wrote about Re: What's the problem with my wine install?

vitamin wrote:
jammanuser wrote: I'm not sure what you trying to say? The above warning applies to real windows' c: drive regardless of the file system.
exactly!!! the warning does not even mention the file system, so that's why i don't understand why >u would use a statement like that to back up a claim that Wine does not work on NTFS file >system!!!
Simple. Wine developed and configured for Linux will not work with NTFS for a varity of reasons. What this means is that you CANNOT install Wine on a NTFS partition and expect it to work. You MUST install it to a LINUX EXT3 partition. Now, here is the problem as I see it: Wubi actually creates an ext3 partition as a hidden file on your NTFS partition. Wine will install to the ext3 parition, but you will not be able to WRITE to the NTFS partition. You must install all applications to the pseudo-C: partition that Wine creates in order to run them. Sorry, but that is the way that this works, for now. Do not blame Wine as the problem appears to be the way that the NTFS Linux drivers work. Also, it is true that you SHOULD not map your existing C: drive to be the C: drive under Wine, it will not work. HOWEVER, after you install your applications to Wine you MAY attempt to map your Vista C:\Program Files directory to another drive letter, but this is not warrantied to work or do anything other than mess up your Wine installation. So, what do you do:
1. Install Wine to your Linux partition.
2. Install all the applications you want to use to Wine's C:\Program Files directory which exists on the Linux partition.
3. Run your applications from Wine's C:\ directory. Linux has problems executing programs from a NTFS partition, even Linux applications.
4. Save data as applicable.

(Isn't this in the FAQ?)

James McKenzie

so what ur saying basically, then, is that Wine DOES work on a wubi install, since it creates an ext3 partition, on which wine would be installed??? only when i install apps, i should install them on the hidden ext3 partition, rather than the NTFS, or my programs wont work? well...that makes sense!! why would i try to install them on the NTFS partition anyway, since i would be in ubuntu when installing them under Wine, which would probably put them automatically in the ext3 partition???

James Mckenzie · Post by **James Mckenzie** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:22 pm

jammanuser <[email protected]> at Nov 25, 2008 12:10 PM (MST) wrote about [Wine] Re: What's the problem with my wine install?

James Mckenzie wrote:
jammanuser <[email protected]> at Nov 25, 2008 10:02 AM (MST) wrote about Re: What's the problem with my wine install?

[Trimmed content to what is needed for reply]

So, what do you do:
1. Install Wine to your Linux partition.
2. Install all the applications you want to use to Wine's C:\Program Files directory which exists on the Linux partition.
3. Run your applications from Wine's C:\ directory. Linux has problems executing programs from a NTFS partition, even Linux applications.
4. Save data as applicable.

(Isn't this in the FAQ?)

James McKenzie
so what ur saying basically, then, is that Wine DOES work on a wubi install, since it creates an >ext3 partition, on which wine would be installed???

It should. That was stated a long time ago. Vitamin may have assumed that you were trying to install to the NTFS partition and not the EXT3 parition.

only when i install apps, i should install them on the hidden ext3 partition, rather than the NTFS, >or my programs wont work? well...that makes sense!! why would i try to install them on the NTFS >partition anyway, since i would be in ubuntu when installing them under Wine, which would probably >put them automatically in the ext3 partition???

I make no assumptions. Insure that programs are installed to Wine's C:\Program Files area when installing. I've read here of people having problems with installing programs and the cause was installation to a NTFS partition.

You should be fine at this point. Try what others and I suggested and let us know if it works.

James McKenzie

jammanuser · Post by **jammanuser** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:40 pm

[/quote]It should. That was stated a long time ago. Vitamin may have assumed that you were trying to install to the NTFS partition and not the EXT3 parition.[/quote]

ok...cool!!! but i was in ubuntu when trying to install wine, so i imagine it would have installed to the ext3 partition, rather than the NTFS, but i don't know that for a fact! so i don't understand why wine wouldn't install then to my ext3 partition...

only when i install apps, i should install them on the hidden ext3 partition, rather than the NTFS, >or my programs wont work? well...that makes sense!! why would i try to install them on the NTFS >partition anyway, since i would be in ubuntu when installing them under Wine, which would probably >put them automatically in the ext3 partition???

I make no assumptions. Insure that programs are installed to Wine's C:\Program Files area when installing. I've read here of people having problems with installing programs and the cause was installation to a NTFS partition.

You should be fine at this point. Try what others and I suggested and let us know if it works.
James McKenzie

all right! i'll try it...whenever, that is, i can boot into my ubuntu OS again!

THANKS!

here's the ubuntu forum thread, where i posted my problem with booting into ubuntu:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=992506