Hi
I have been working with Windoze for 20+ years. I have some programming experience although the last fully rfeatures application I wrote was using an early version of MS VB.net. I have been persuaded to migrate our PCs to Linux. I am running Mint 17 with Cinnamon on two PCs. I was expecting some culture shock but didn't realise how fundamentally different it was going to be.
In my area of work there are many products which have Windoze software to configure and proogramme them. Getting Wine to work with them is essential for me to migrate. I joined this forum hoping to find some solutions. With that in mind I went to my user control panel where, apparently, "You can view all usergroups via the “Usergroups” link within your User Control Panel." I am probably missing something simple and obvious, but having failed after much looking, I am beginning to think that this is one of those sites that only works fully on the latest version MS internet Explorer and that Bill Gates is watching me on the webcam and laughing hysterically.
Since starting with Mint I have been surprised at the lack of advice available for XP refugees WRITTEN IN XP LANGUAGE. Clearly, there also needs to be something in Wine specifically for XP refugees. If such a thing exists, I would like to contribuute to it.
I have already put the problem application into AppDB. I will make a separate post about it but I would appreciate if someone can give me some better advice on how & where to post.
XP refugee seeks help with Wine.
Re: XP refugee seeks help with Wine.
I'm not really sure what you mean by "XP language." If there are specific things in our documentation you don't understand, ask about them. However, keep in mind that using Wine is not a substitute for learning how to use your new OS, and this is not a general Linux-for-newbies site. Basic knowledge of your OS is assumed here, and newbie questions about how to use it should be asked on your distro's support forum.
Regarding Wine's control panel, as you've noticed, it's very incomplete. Most of the things the control panel would be used for in Windows are things that are controlled through the host system, not Wine. This definitely includes user and group permissions. You didn't mention what you hoped to accomplish via users and groups, but if you are hoping to set up multiple users to share one wineprefix, Wine is designed to prevent that due to the risk of registry corruption. People have found ways around this, and you can search the forum for them if you're determined to try, but doing that is not supported.
Troubleshooting Wine is very much on an app by app basis, so yes, you should create threads for the specific apps you are having problems with. One general bit of advice I can give you here is to upgrade to the latest development release before posting. That alone may solve the problem, and if it doesn't, you will need to test the latest development release in order file a bug.
Regarding Wine's control panel, as you've noticed, it's very incomplete. Most of the things the control panel would be used for in Windows are things that are controlled through the host system, not Wine. This definitely includes user and group permissions. You didn't mention what you hoped to accomplish via users and groups, but if you are hoping to set up multiple users to share one wineprefix, Wine is designed to prevent that due to the risk of registry corruption. People have found ways around this, and you can search the forum for them if you're determined to try, but doing that is not supported.
Troubleshooting Wine is very much on an app by app basis, so yes, you should create threads for the specific apps you are having problems with. One general bit of advice I can give you here is to upgrade to the latest development release before posting. That alone may solve the problem, and if it doesn't, you will need to test the latest development release in order file a bug.
Re: XP refugee seeks help with Wine.
Hi! Thanks for the quick response. My problem was with the "User Control Panel" under "User Menu" for the forum, not the Wine configuration panel. I wanted to join a suitable group to match my experience and expertise. However, I am clearly not that advanced as I was quite unable to find the list or join a group. 
In respect of XP language issue, I know that "UNEXPECTED_KERNEL_MODE_TRAP" means "XP has an undocumented feature which Microsoft doesn't want users to know about". I have no idea what "PrintDlg16 custom setup hook 0x165707a1 no longer supported" means in respect of Wine. It doesn't produce anything in a forum serach and the first result from Google is my forum post viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23376&e=0. Is there a glossary or list of error messages somewhere? I would like to be able to help find solutions rather than just post problems. I presume that by upgrading to 1.7.25, I'll be in a better position to contribute.
I have joined the forum for Linux mint and will address Linux issues with them. Fully adopting Linux won't be possible for me unless I can get certain applications working under Wine. These are, in the main, tools for automation hardware which are only available as Windoze releases. I am aware that there are a lot of XP users looking at Linux as an alternative to dowgrading to 7 or 8. I haven't been able to find any documentation or forums specifically aimed at helping XP junkies understand the new systems. Something is needed for both Wine and the Linux distros
In respect of XP language issue, I know that "UNEXPECTED_KERNEL_MODE_TRAP" means "XP has an undocumented feature which Microsoft doesn't want users to know about". I have no idea what "PrintDlg16 custom setup hook 0x165707a1 no longer supported" means in respect of Wine. It doesn't produce anything in a forum serach and the first result from Google is my forum post viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23376&e=0. Is there a glossary or list of error messages somewhere? I would like to be able to help find solutions rather than just post problems. I presume that by upgrading to 1.7.25, I'll be in a better position to contribute.
I have joined the forum for Linux mint and will address Linux issues with them. Fully adopting Linux won't be possible for me unless I can get certain applications working under Wine. These are, in the main, tools for automation hardware which are only available as Windoze releases. I am aware that there are a lot of XP users looking at Linux as an alternative to dowgrading to 7 or 8. I haven't been able to find any documentation or forums specifically aimed at helping XP junkies understand the new systems. Something is needed for both Wine and the Linux distros
Re: XP refugee seeks help with Wine.
"Usergroups" on the forum are managed by the administrator, and the only three groups defined for this forum are Administrators, Global Moderators, and Registered Users. Other forums using PhpBB may have more groups, and allow users to self-select them, which is probably why it appears in the menu for everyone, but that's not the case here.
There is no glossary of error messages. There is the source code, which is most useful to people who know C, but does have some notes that are intelligible to those of us who don't. Most of what I know comes from reading lots of forum posts, bug reports, and AppDB test reports over the past few years. Part of interpreting console output is learning what to ignore. Wine tends to print a lot of "fixme" messages (which are unimplemented functions), but many of them are harmless.
Regarding the tools for automation hardware, if the connection is pure serial or serial over USB, you might be able to get it to work in Wine by symlinking the device to a com port, but if the hardware requires Windows drivers, you are out of luck. Windows hardware drivers will not work in Wine.
There is no glossary of error messages. There is the source code, which is most useful to people who know C, but does have some notes that are intelligible to those of us who don't. Most of what I know comes from reading lots of forum posts, bug reports, and AppDB test reports over the past few years. Part of interpreting console output is learning what to ignore. Wine tends to print a lot of "fixme" messages (which are unimplemented functions), but many of them are harmless.
Regarding the tools for automation hardware, if the connection is pure serial or serial over USB, you might be able to get it to work in Wine by symlinking the device to a com port, but if the hardware requires Windows drivers, you are out of luck. Windows hardware drivers will not work in Wine.
Re: XP refugee seeks help with Wine.
Wine language describing what wine has done is in fact very straight forwards Gannet.
fixme: at start of line says program has accessed something that wine does not have implemented.
Next bits commdlg:PrintDlg16 commdlg is library and PrintDlg16 is function in that library. Last bit " custom print hook 0x165707a1 no longer supported" is programmer note about the issue normally have to access source code to understand the last bit completely.
http://source.winehq.org/source/dlls/co ... printdlg.c
The code of interest in your case.
"No longer supported means" that one version of wine some where back in history supported this current version does not.
Over all descriptions of those parts.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx
The thing here is there are a lot of cases that fixme: turns out to be harmless.
"custom templates no longer supported, using default" also is directly linked to custom print hook being missing.
The issue here removing custom templates support enabled a stack of applications to run. It is possible we have a case here that custom templates has to be implemented so your application works.
Gannet as you can see no glossary of messages from wine each message leads you to source code. A perfectly supported program may or may not have messages. Sorry the confusing world of windows programs sometimes ask to perform impossible things and expect a failure response.
Yes the latest release wine would display the same message.
Gannet also I can give you really bad news. That application you are running is 16 or uses 16 bit code so will not run on 64 bit Windows XP, 7 or 8 or 9. Microsoft has officially deprecated usage of 16 bit code. Windows 7 Pro 64 bit only runs it by running XP-Mode or in other words XP in a virtual machine inside. Yes Windows 7 XP-Mode is end of life for updates as well.
http://www.ta.co.at/en/download/software/tapps.html
Gannet foss is not always a free lunch. It is possible if you got a group of people who need your application to work into a pool could pay codeweavers or other developers to implement the features to make the application work.
Some cases while migrating to Linux you have no option bar run Windows in Virtual Machine for a while.
Also part of migrating to Linux is accepting that some hardware will have to go in bin and be replaced by more compatible hardware. Wine is not a magic bullet some hardware interface software cannot ever be made run in Wine due to the differences between running on Linux kernel and running on a NT kernel. This is the big problem with people migrating to Linux is a failure to accept the reality that some items will just have to go.
Gannet we don't have different lists for different experience levels other than the split between developer and user. This forum is user. Why don't we split more if we split more you end up without the advanced people around to help you. *yes advance people have habit of moving off to the advance forum than not reading anything else so leaving new people in the new people forum stuffed*
Code: Select all
fixme:commdlg:PrintDlg16 custom print hook 0x165707a1 no longer supportedNext bits commdlg:PrintDlg16 commdlg is library and PrintDlg16 is function in that library. Last bit " custom print hook 0x165707a1 no longer supported" is programmer note about the issue normally have to access source code to understand the last bit completely.
http://source.winehq.org/source/dlls/co ... printdlg.c
Code: Select all
if (lppd->Flags & (PD_ENABLEPRINTTEMPLATE | PD_ENABLEPRINTTEMPLATEHANDLE |
PD_ENABLESETUPTEMPLATE | PD_ENABLESETUPTEMPLATEHANDLE))
FIXME( "custom templates no longer supported, using default\n" );
if (lppd->Flags & PD_ENABLEPRINTHOOK)
FIXME( "custom print hook %p no longer supported\n", lppd->lpfnPrintHook );
if (lppd->Flags & PD_ENABLESETUPHOOK)
FIXME( "custom setup hook %p no longer supported\n", lppd->lpfnSetupHook );"No longer supported means" that one version of wine some where back in history supported this current version does not.
Over all descriptions of those parts.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx
The thing here is there are a lot of cases that fixme: turns out to be harmless.
"custom templates no longer supported, using default" also is directly linked to custom print hook being missing.
The issue here removing custom templates support enabled a stack of applications to run. It is possible we have a case here that custom templates has to be implemented so your application works.
Gannet as you can see no glossary of messages from wine each message leads you to source code. A perfectly supported program may or may not have messages. Sorry the confusing world of windows programs sometimes ask to perform impossible things and expect a failure response.
Yes the latest release wine would display the same message.
Gannet also I can give you really bad news. That application you are running is 16 or uses 16 bit code so will not run on 64 bit Windows XP, 7 or 8 or 9. Microsoft has officially deprecated usage of 16 bit code. Windows 7 Pro 64 bit only runs it by running XP-Mode or in other words XP in a virtual machine inside. Yes Windows 7 XP-Mode is end of life for updates as well.
http://www.ta.co.at/en/download/software/tapps.html
Gannet foss is not always a free lunch. It is possible if you got a group of people who need your application to work into a pool could pay codeweavers or other developers to implement the features to make the application work.
Some cases while migrating to Linux you have no option bar run Windows in Virtual Machine for a while.
Also part of migrating to Linux is accepting that some hardware will have to go in bin and be replaced by more compatible hardware. Wine is not a magic bullet some hardware interface software cannot ever be made run in Wine due to the differences between running on Linux kernel and running on a NT kernel. This is the big problem with people migrating to Linux is a failure to accept the reality that some items will just have to go.
Gannet we don't have different lists for different experience levels other than the split between developer and user. This forum is user. Why don't we split more if we split more you end up without the advanced people around to help you. *yes advance people have habit of moving off to the advance forum than not reading anything else so leaving new people in the new people forum stuffed*
Re: XP refugee seeks help with Wine.
Thanks for all your help. I have absorbed the contents. I wasn't expecting it to be a picnic using Linux & Wine and I still think this is alot better than being stuck in the Microsoft redundancy cycle. Better to buy some new hardware that spend a fortune on a new Windoze version only to discover you have to replace it all and it still doesn't work properly with the new stuff. I trod in Vista once - never again!!! It is only a few specialist applications which I need Wine for. I was already using LibreOffice, Thunderbird & Firefox before I started the migration.
Please could you give me some quick answers just to make sure I've "got it".
If I am to contribute to the forum, would it be best for me to update to the latest development version of Wine and update to new versions when they are released?
As an enlightened "Newbie", are you happy with me putting currently unsupported applications onto AppDB. I have already added TAPPS <https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager. ... &iId=16311>. I'll add Winsol (from the same farm) later on. This works in the main but I feel I should give it a silver rating as I haven't tested all the hardware related functions yet. The TCP/IP link works well but I haven't been able to try the USB com port connection yet.
Is there a good chance of getting TAPPS working by copying over .dll files from XP and using the Wine configurator to link to those where the Wine ones are giving problerms? This is what I addressed in my other post <viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23376&e=0>
Please could you give me some quick answers just to make sure I've "got it".
If I am to contribute to the forum, would it be best for me to update to the latest development version of Wine and update to new versions when they are released?
As an enlightened "Newbie", are you happy with me putting currently unsupported applications onto AppDB. I have already added TAPPS <https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager. ... &iId=16311>. I'll add Winsol (from the same farm) later on. This works in the main but I feel I should give it a silver rating as I haven't tested all the hardware related functions yet. The TCP/IP link works well but I haven't been able to try the USB com port connection yet.
Is there a good chance of getting TAPPS working by copying over .dll files from XP and using the Wine configurator to link to those where the Wine ones are giving problerms? This is what I addressed in my other post <viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23376&e=0>
Re: XP refugee seeks help with Wine.
Yes.Gannet wrote:If I am to contribute to the forum, would it be best for me to update to the latest development version of Wine and update to new versions when they are released?
Yes. We depend on users to do that.As an enlightened "Newbie", are you happy with me putting currently unsupported applications onto AppDB.
No. I downloaded TAPPS and tried it in 1.7.25 with the same results. Commdlg and comctl installed by winetricks didn't make a difference, probably because winetricks installs the 32 bit versions and your app wants the 16 bit ones. Manually copying them from XP won't work for the same reason.Is there a good chance of getting TAPPS working by copying over .dll files from XP and using the Wine configurator to link to those where the Wine ones are giving problerms? This is what I addressed in my other post <viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23376&e=0>
What you should do is file a bug.
Re: XP refugee seeks help with Wine. [SOLVED]
Just revisited this and thought I should mark it solved as I am on my way and there is lots of good advice in the replies.
Re: XP refugee seeks help with Wine. [SOLVING NOT SOLVED]
I seem to be able to edit subject line on replies but I can't find out how to edit my original post. I checked the FAQ and it says:
Can I find the "Edit button". Think, perhaps, I should buy a slide rule!» How do I edit or delete a post?
Unless you are a board administrator or moderator, you can only edit or delete your own posts. You can edit a post by clicking the edit button for the relevant post,
Re: XP refugee seeks help with Wine.
There is a 45 minute time limit on editing posts, after which the edit button will no longer appear.
Re: XP refugee seeks help with Wine.
So, when I have received a good reply to a post, how do I mark it SOLVED?
