Hi,
There is a lot of people everywhere which have problems with pulseaudio.
I understand that it's not stable yet. But SOMETIMES USE WINEPULSE IS REALLY THE BEST SOLUTION.
You don't need to use it as default sound driver. Simply add possibility to change it in registry from "alsa" to "pulse" or using winetricks.
I found a patch, applied it, compiled manually and it was better in my case than searching and trying a lot of workarounds which don't have effects. But I could do simply "winetricks sound=pulse".....
But people can write...
Regards,
Deve
winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
deve the answer is mostly no.
Wine alsa is meant to be compatible with pulseaudio Alsa interface. People on 64 bit systems have a habit of not installing 32 bit pulse plugin for alsa. If pulseaudio alsa plugin does not work there is meant to be a bug report submitted. deve basically where are you bugzilla bugs about the alsa issues with pulseaudio.
deve wine has a testsuite http://wiki.winehq.org/ConformanceTests. Out of all the sound drivers that have existed for wine. Winepulse still fails the testsuite worst than all of them even some that have not been worked on for 3 to 4 years. As you say its not stable yet. Its not bare min quality yet.
deve its just a simple reality us support people don't want to deal with stuff that cannot pass conformance testing. That is where the line is drawn in the sand. To be truthful the jackaudio patches have better odds of getting mainline before pulseaudio.
Yes the conditions to getting any patch mainline is passing conformance testing. Fail todo that AJ the project lead Maintainer has no option bar to reject the patch/s.
Wine alsa is meant to be compatible with pulseaudio Alsa interface. People on 64 bit systems have a habit of not installing 32 bit pulse plugin for alsa. If pulseaudio alsa plugin does not work there is meant to be a bug report submitted. deve basically where are you bugzilla bugs about the alsa issues with pulseaudio.
deve wine has a testsuite http://wiki.winehq.org/ConformanceTests. Out of all the sound drivers that have existed for wine. Winepulse still fails the testsuite worst than all of them even some that have not been worked on for 3 to 4 years. As you say its not stable yet. Its not bare min quality yet.
deve its just a simple reality us support people don't want to deal with stuff that cannot pass conformance testing. That is where the line is drawn in the sand. To be truthful the jackaudio patches have better odds of getting mainline before pulseaudio.
Yes the conditions to getting any patch mainline is passing conformance testing. Fail todo that AJ the project lead Maintainer has no option bar to reject the patch/s.
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
Problem is known for years... In the past, after playing about 30 minutes sound disappeared. Now after some updates, when I play about 10 minutes, I get crackling sounds.
Only one "good" workaround is to use alsa directly. I can change autospawn settings, and then stop pulseaudio before start game.
As I wrote earlier, there is no need to use winepulse as default. Just add possibility to change sound from alsa to pulse if someone would like to do it...
In my case, in this one game (Sims 3) winepulse gives much better results than alsa... But how much I needed to do to make it work - find out that winepulse exist, find a patch, then compilation. It's only my little wish to use "winetricks sound=pulse"...
Only one "good" workaround is to use alsa directly. I can change autospawn settings, and then stop pulseaudio before start game.
As I wrote earlier, there is no need to use winepulse as default. Just add possibility to change sound from alsa to pulse if someone would like to do it...
In my case, in this one game (Sims 3) winepulse gives much better results than alsa... But how much I needed to do to make it work - find out that winepulse exist, find a patch, then compilation. It's only my little wish to use "winetricks sound=pulse"...
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
deve the rules of wine are blunt. Like take the recent patch that doubled 3d performance in particular programs. Due to the fact its not passing the test-suite yet either it cannot be merged.
deve basically it does not matter to the wine project how good or great something is for particular applications if it cannot pass the test-suite.
So yes for winepulse to be merged to has to be good enough quality to be a default
deve http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16895 There are min versions of PulseAudio >= 1.1 and alsa-plugins >= 1.0.25 (called "libasound2-plugins" on Ubuntu).
Next there is even min versions of wine that must be used. 1.6 and greater. deve you could be using 1.4.x or 1.5.x something and some of these the alsa driver in wine is known as pulse-audio incompatible.
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.p ... &iId=16664
There are zero test reports on the appdb of your issue deve. I find no bugzilla entry of your issue either.
deve so I have zero grounds to push request to AJ for include of pulseaudio driver on application need. I would not even dare make the request without supporting documentation. The supporting documentation does not exist because users have not been doing the feedback.
Reports on the ALSA issue might see alsa-plugins fixed or wine fixed or pulseaudio fixed. If not fixable then we have grounds to request winepulse.
deve see the problem just requesting something done without evidence is impossible in a project like wine. Wine rapid release cycle demand lot of quality rules and restrictions this equals a lot of bureaucracy with no override.
Basically on a issue like this complaining or requesting in the forum while the other bits don't exist is not going to fly. Because there is absolutely nothing any of us can do without the support documentation.
I was hopeing you did have a application with the supporting documentation in order. Please don't think about quoting non winehq.org sites either. They are not acceptable when it comes to feature request or feature alterations.
deve the project leads of pulseaudio also found it shocking how strong the bureaucracy of wine is.
Before the anti half done was passed wine had 8 different sound drivers none of the worked right ever. The policy is valid. Problem is your request has to pass the requirements of policies of wine. Basically dot every i cross every t or its never going to happen. Of course in the process of dotting every i and crossing every t the need if winepulse might disappear as well.
deve basically it does not matter to the wine project how good or great something is for particular applications if it cannot pass the test-suite.
So yes for winepulse to be merged to has to be good enough quality to be a default
deve http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16895 There are min versions of PulseAudio >= 1.1 and alsa-plugins >= 1.0.25 (called "libasound2-plugins" on Ubuntu).
Next there is even min versions of wine that must be used. 1.6 and greater. deve you could be using 1.4.x or 1.5.x something and some of these the alsa driver in wine is known as pulse-audio incompatible.
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.p ... &iId=16664
There are zero test reports on the appdb of your issue deve. I find no bugzilla entry of your issue either.
deve so I have zero grounds to push request to AJ for include of pulseaudio driver on application need. I would not even dare make the request without supporting documentation. The supporting documentation does not exist because users have not been doing the feedback.
Reports on the ALSA issue might see alsa-plugins fixed or wine fixed or pulseaudio fixed. If not fixable then we have grounds to request winepulse.
deve see the problem just requesting something done without evidence is impossible in a project like wine. Wine rapid release cycle demand lot of quality rules and restrictions this equals a lot of bureaucracy with no override.
Basically on a issue like this complaining or requesting in the forum while the other bits don't exist is not going to fly. Because there is absolutely nothing any of us can do without the support documentation.
I was hopeing you did have a application with the supporting documentation in order. Please don't think about quoting non winehq.org sites either. They are not acceptable when it comes to feature request or feature alterations.
deve the project leads of pulseaudio also found it shocking how strong the bureaucracy of wine is.
Before the anti half done was passed wine had 8 different sound drivers none of the worked right ever. The policy is valid. Problem is your request has to pass the requirements of policies of wine. Basically dot every i cross every t or its never going to happen. Of course in the process of dotting every i and crossing every t the need if winepulse might disappear as well.
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
My current system is Ubuntu 13.10 + Gnome 3.8.
I use wine 1.6 to run Sims 3 (currnetly with pulseaudio patch). Also generic wine 1.7.4 was tested. All basical packages are from official repository - kernel, pulseaudio, alsa plugin etc. I didn't any changes in pulseaudio configuration.
Of course, I could report a bug. But it is really hard to test. Even the game will work properly for an hour or two, I can't say that it will work properly in next day. Other thing is that these are known problems. Perhaps with workarounds in recet versions, but still the same problems.
I use wine 1.6 to run Sims 3 (currnetly with pulseaudio patch). Also generic wine 1.7.4 was tested. All basical packages are from official repository - kernel, pulseaudio, alsa plugin etc. I didn't any changes in pulseaudio configuration.
Of course, I could report a bug. But it is really hard to test. Even the game will work properly for an hour or two, I can't say that it will work properly in next day. Other thing is that these are known problems. Perhaps with workarounds in recet versions, but still the same problems.
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
deve I wonder if you are running into a little wine trap. A different bug related to pulse-audio.
Using pasuspender around wine causes horible events. Wine is not like other programs. wineserver running in background holds settings like audio settings. So wine in fact does not take well to it using alsa out then another application using pasuspender. Wine is not designed for disappearing audio interfaces. Yes bad new this is a bug that effects wine with usb connected sound as well. Change sound card layout its a wineserver -k that stops everything wine and start up again.
deve even that is randomish it still worth opening a bug. Wine has debugging channels like +relay and other options that you can have running to extract extra information from wine to attempt to work out what is going wrong. Yes a lot of debugging channels in wine exist to track down really hard to test problems.
Developers do need the version numbers of pulseaudio and alsa plugin. Kernel type is also critical.
deve as I said I had no bug report http://wiki.winehq.org/Sound
In fact by wine official documentation the alsa driver should be working. Please be warned winepulse patched versions have a habit of altering files that end up badly effecting alsa driver at times.
deve the random behavour of the bug either suggests pasuspender triggered and you not seeing the linked event or something lower down than wine. So it is possible another alsa plugin bug.
deve I guess you have tried doing a wineserver -k in case of audio play up to see if starting wine clean makes everything ok again. By the way it could be that your pulseaudio server is unstable on your system for some reason. Yes pulseaudio apps reconnect alsa applications get upset.
This is the problem pulseaudio and wine currently is marked as should work. But there are a few limitations on what is error free. But we don't have anyone submitting bug reports to have those fixed.
Using pasuspender around wine causes horible events. Wine is not like other programs. wineserver running in background holds settings like audio settings. So wine in fact does not take well to it using alsa out then another application using pasuspender. Wine is not designed for disappearing audio interfaces. Yes bad new this is a bug that effects wine with usb connected sound as well. Change sound card layout its a wineserver -k that stops everything wine and start up again.
deve even that is randomish it still worth opening a bug. Wine has debugging channels like +relay and other options that you can have running to extract extra information from wine to attempt to work out what is going wrong. Yes a lot of debugging channels in wine exist to track down really hard to test problems.
Developers do need the version numbers of pulseaudio and alsa plugin. Kernel type is also critical.
Sorry to say might be known to users. But not in a bug report associated with application. Its not known to developers as a in face problem that has to be addressed.Other thing is that these are known problems.
deve as I said I had no bug report http://wiki.winehq.org/Sound
In fact by wine official documentation the alsa driver should be working. Please be warned winepulse patched versions have a habit of altering files that end up badly effecting alsa driver at times.
deve the random behavour of the bug either suggests pasuspender triggered and you not seeing the linked event or something lower down than wine. So it is possible another alsa plugin bug.
deve I guess you have tried doing a wineserver -k in case of audio play up to see if starting wine clean makes everything ok again. By the way it could be that your pulseaudio server is unstable on your system for some reason. Yes pulseaudio apps reconnect alsa applications get upset.
Updates to game or update to system. If updates to system update pulseaudio this does disrupt alsa plugin. Yes stopping and restarting pulseaudio not a good idea with the alsa plugin.Now after some updates, when I play about 10 minutes, I get crackling sounds.
This is the problem pulseaudio and wine currently is marked as should work. But there are a few limitations on what is error free. But we don't have anyone submitting bug reports to have those fixed.
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
Crackling sound in many games is a known bug: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28282. Comment 38 in that bug says that changing default-fragment-size-msec = 10 to default-fragment-size-msec = 5 in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf fixes it.
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux- ... ds-repair/
The bad news here is I was forgetting that bug Crackling sound. Even worse deve for you trying to get winepulse included by default is that that is not wine unique. Yes it can happen to some applications using pulseaudio including winepulse drivers as well. Some systems worse than others.
deve that winepulse has been working for you without Crackles and if you pulseaudio is on default its been more good luck than good management.
Fairly much there is no case to include winepulse. There are many reasons not to. Like people falsely swap to it and have a intermittent problem disappear so they think they have fixed it.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28282 has not been linked to Sim 3 as well.
Can you now see our annoyance doing support deve. Winepulse patch is mostly doing not required alterations. Every extra line of code has to be maintained and audited so comes with a cost.
The bad news here is I was forgetting that bug Crackling sound. Even worse deve for you trying to get winepulse included by default is that that is not wine unique. Yes it can happen to some applications using pulseaudio including winepulse drivers as well. Some systems worse than others.
deve that winepulse has been working for you without Crackles and if you pulseaudio is on default its been more good luck than good management.
Fairly much there is no case to include winepulse. There are many reasons not to. Like people falsely swap to it and have a intermittent problem disappear so they think they have fixed it.
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28282 has not been linked to Sim 3 as well.
Can you now see our annoyance doing support deve. Winepulse patch is mostly doing not required alterations. Every extra line of code has to be maintained and audited so comes with a cost.
-
Retro Gamer
- Newbie
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- Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:56 pm
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
I can tell you It does fix it dimesio. It has for me for almost a week now where before I had to kill and restart PulseAudio from a terminal a few times an hour to fix it. Not only did it fix the pops and crackles, it also fixed the audio and video speed up related bug that affected Steam's windows client badly as well as as non Steam Window's applications in WINE 1.4 through 1.7.7. I tried every PulseAudio fix I could find in the Arch Wiki and everywhere else 1st with not much luck. I came across WinePulse in the AUR, compiled and installed it. That also fixed the sound issue, BUT instead of having to restart PulseAudio 1 to 3 times an hour whatever I was running in WINE would crash to the desktop 1 to 3 times an hour. Thats worse to me than it was without Winepulse.
I found that comment #38 in that WINE bugzilla post you linked. I undid all the fixes I previously implemented, dropped Winepulse 1.7.6 for the latest WINE 1.7.7 then changed my "default-fragment-size-msec = ##" to "default-fragment-size-msec = 5" in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf. I was so surprised playing any preview video or game in Steam worked without previous issues. I can play a MMO like Neverwinter for 4+ hours straight with no audio issues or crashes what so ever! Hard to believe such a small change had a large impact. Very happy...
I'm not saying people should stop making everything better or compatible by submitting patches, but the benefit here is you DON'T need to wait for Winepulse maintainers to patch the latest WINE version with the PulseAudio patches as they don't seem needed after changing that one line of a config file.
I found that comment #38 in that WINE bugzilla post you linked. I undid all the fixes I previously implemented, dropped Winepulse 1.7.6 for the latest WINE 1.7.7 then changed my "default-fragment-size-msec = ##" to "default-fragment-size-msec = 5" in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf. I was so surprised playing any preview video or game in Steam worked without previous issues. I can play a MMO like Neverwinter for 4+ hours straight with no audio issues or crashes what so ever! Hard to believe such a small change had a large impact. Very happy...
I'm not saying people should stop making everything better or compatible by submitting patches, but the benefit here is you DON'T need to wait for Winepulse maintainers to patch the latest WINE version with the PulseAudio patches as they don't seem needed after changing that one line of a config file.
dimesio wrote:Crackling sound in many games is a known bug: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28282. Comment 38 in that bug says that changing default-fragment-size-msec = 10 to default-fragment-size-msec = 5 in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf fixes it.
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
Retro Gamer, would you mind leaving a comment about your experience in the bug report?
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
About "default-fragment-size-msec = 5" change... Doesn't if affect any other application in system and is it safe? There should be some reasons that in default config file it is 10 ms, not 5.
Retro Gamer, the crash could be caused by unstable wine. You can try to patch wine 1.6 if you want. Also if you use wine-multimedia repository there is more changes, not only in winepulse.drv files. Personally I added only driver files and modified configure file to include it. I have old version of this driver, found on mailing list. I didn't check newer from wine-multimedia because this old works fine for me.
Retro Gamer, the crash could be caused by unstable wine. You can try to patch wine 1.6 if you want. Also if you use wine-multimedia repository there is more changes, not only in winepulse.drv files. Personally I added only driver files and modified configure file to include it. I have old version of this driver, found on mailing list. I didn't check newer from wine-multimedia because this old works fine for me.
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
deve the issue Retro Gamer had some games do generate with winepulse. Huge crash in pulseaudio it self. deve wine itself cannot cause a huge crash. This is one of the reasons winepulse cannot merge. Wine test suite can also set this off on some systems. Yes your old version is not safe. deve the applications you have used must not really push audio.
pops and crackles with pulseaudio universally equals your default-fragment-size-msec wrong does not matter if the application is using alsa backend or a pulseaudio backend. Yes pops can crackles are not a wine problem.
5 msec fragments is closer to windows. This is where the big problem comes in with 10 msec.
Yes it does effect other applications. The price is higher power usage due to slightly higher cpu usage by pulseaudio. Otherwise no negative effects. Positive effect are lots of issues in applications disappearing including applications with native pulseaudio drivers.About "default-fragment-size-msec = 5" change... Doesn't if affect any other application in system and is it safe? There should be some reasons that in default config file it is 10 ms, not 5.
pops and crackles with pulseaudio universally equals your default-fragment-size-msec wrong does not matter if the application is using alsa backend or a pulseaudio backend. Yes pops can crackles are not a wine problem.
5 msec fragments is closer to windows. This is where the big problem comes in with 10 msec.
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
Why the default is 10 would be something to ask the PulseAudio developers. As for whether it's safe for other apps, try it and find out. It's easy to change back if it causes problems.
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
Thanks for explanation. Perhaps I will check this solution. When fragments are 2x shorter, shouldn't be doubled number of these fragments? "default-fragments" in daemon.conf.oiaohm wrote: Yes it does effect other applications. The price is higher power usage due to slightly higher cpu usage by pulseaudio. Otherwise no negative effects. Positive effect are lots of issues in applications disappearing including applications with native pulseaudio drivers.
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
You might want to take a look at this: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=44862.
Re: winepulse.drv should be added to main branch
deve its not a very simple maths. Too many cached fragments can also be bad.
This is the big headache with pulseaudio and sound servers of the past on Linux.
Different application have different requirements they require from the Audio sound system. Setting stuff in stone equals very bad outcomes.
This is the big headache with pulseaudio and sound servers of the past on Linux.
Different application have different requirements they require from the Audio sound system. Setting stuff in stone equals very bad outcomes.
