No sound in World of Warcraft - intermittant.

JontomXire · Post by **JontomXire** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:25 am

At first I thought it was due to running Mangler simultaneously, but recently we've had no sound in World of Warcraft.

One night when I was setting up to raid that night, I started WoW, and sound worked fine. I then quit WoW, started Mangler, started WoW, had sound in the first but not the second. When WoW started this dialogue box popped up saying that a change in hardware had been detected and asking if I wanted to reset to default settings - I selected "no".

I then quit WoW, quit Mangler, then restarted just WoW. I got the dialogue box again, and sound was working once more.

I then quit WoW, and started Mangler then WoW. No dialogue box and sound was working fine in both.

----

This weekend, my wife and I were playing WoW, and she was on the Linux box, we hadn't run Mangler at all. She complained that there was no sound. Later that night I couldn't get sound to work at all. I tried running with Mangler and without Mangler, I tried rebooting, I even overrode the automatic device detection in winecfg to select the analogue sound device rather than the digital one.

Nothing worked.

----

Lastly, I'd just like to say that when I test the sound in winecfg, it always works fine. I always hear the test sound, regardless of whether Mangler is running or not, regardless of whether WoW has sound or not, the winecfg program always plays sound correctly.

So I'd say the problem seems to be that sometimes Wine presents a sound device to WoW, and sometimes it doesn't. Hence the "hardware changed" dialogue. I have noticed that a number of times, but since I don't play on that PC I never really noticed a problem with sound before, and my wife isn't the complaining sort, so she didn't tell me much either.

Between crappy graphics, dodgy sound, and difficulty getting the 8 mouse buttons to work the way they used to, I'm seriously considering going back to Windows. I really really don't want to, but it's my wife plays on that computer, not me, and I think she's getting a bit hacked off at how badlyWoW is running. As I posted in another thread, since I last had Windows running on there, I have upgraded motherboard, CPU, and RAM significantly, but the graphics is worse now than it was before, when I feel sure that all the upgrades should make it much much better. All graphics settings are at the lowest level yet the game is barely playable, slow and jerky. If I can't get sound to work reliably soon then I am going to go back to Windows and kiss goodbye to Linux. Blame the games programmers who only write games for Windows.

JontomXire · Post by **JontomXire** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:31 am

Can anyone help?

has anyone else experienced a similar problem?

I noticed in a Google search for solutions that one person posted his Config.WTF and the sound output device was something other than "System Default".

I'm wondering how WoW treats "System Default" and what Wine responds with. Can I do something to make sure that this points to the correct thing, or is the solution to specify something else in Config.WTF, and if so, what?

JontomXire · Post by **JontomXire** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:51 am

I have found that changing the output device from inside WoW causes sound to turn on - but only temporarily.

Any ideas? Anyone?

mikkelkromann · Post by **mikkelkromann** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:11 am

I have found (with Ubuntu 11.04) that using other programs simultaneously sometimes cause troubles with sound, for me particularly Ventrilo may loose sound and mic when playing WoW. Resetting sound in Ubuntus control panel solves this problem.

Regarding poor gfx performance: Have you tried the commandline option -opengl, that made really great improvement for me?

Cheers

slopoke · Post by **slopoke** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:01 am

My experience. Don't run any kind of VOIP app in Wine at the same time you run WOW. Use a Linux version. Use a USB headset. This is not system default, so Linux will see it as a secondary sound device and won't touch your default (WOW) sound. Of course, this depends on you knowing how to make audio settings for all the affected apps so they stay separate. By doing this I can start either or both at any time and in any order.

Works for me.

JontomXire · Post by **JontomXire** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:39 am

I'm running Mangler which is native to Linux, not under Wine.

I don't have a USB headset. And anyway it should not be necessary to do this kind of stuff. I don't have to buy new hardware when I already have perfectly good hardware to get stuff to work in Windows, so why do I have to do it in Linux?

So on Saturday I ordered a copy of 64 bit Windows 7 for my PC.

Linux is once again going onto the shelf, so to speak.

jjmckenzie · Post by **jjmckenzie** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:26 pm

JontomXire wrote:I'm running Mangler which is native to Linux, not under Wine.

I don't have a USB headset. And anyway it should not be necessary to do this kind of stuff. I don't have to buy new hardware when I already have perfectly good hardware to get stuff to work in Windows, so why do I have to do it in Linux?

Two reasons: One, Windows allows things that any Linux variant does not. This has been true for many years (I started with Slack before 1.0 and other non-Microsoft operating systems and have found this to be very, very true.) Windows allows 'sharing' of hardware devices (and originally it did not do so) whereas Linux and UNIXs do not.
Two, Linux and UNIX are 'harder' on hardware. It may take more to get a certain program to run that is only available in a Windows version by using either Wine or a Virtualizer than just straight up Windows.

The solution continues to be a Linux variation of our favorite programs or a suitable substitute. For some programs, the Linux variant exists or can exist. More programs, more Linux, more programs and so on.

James

dardack · Post by **dardack** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:33 am

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 9:26 PM, jjmckenzie <[email protected]> wrote:

JontomXire wrote:
I'm running Mangler which is native to Linux, not under Wine.

I don't have a USB headset. And anyway it should not be necessary to do this kind of stuff. I don't have to buy new hardware when I already have perfectly good hardware to get stuff to work in Windows, so why do I have to do it in Linux?

Two reasons: One, Windows allows things that any Linux variant does not. This has been true for many years (I started with Slack before 1.0 and other non-Microsoft operating systems and have found this to be very, very true.) Windows allows 'sharing' of hardware devices (and originally it did not do so) whereas Linux and UNIXs do not.
Two, Linux and UNIX are 'harder' on hardware. It may take more to get a certain program to run that is only available in a Windows version by using either Wine or a Virtualizer than just straight up Windows.

The solution continues to be a Linux variation of our favorite programs or a suitable substitute. For some programs, the Linux variant exists or can exist. More programs, more Linux, more programs and so on.

James

My Linux allows "sharing". I've run WoW/Mangler/Vent (just to hear
myself echo)/Rythombox/Youtube all at the same time. Then again when
I buy hardware, I make sure it works 100% with linux before I buy, but
that's me.

In WoW I get same performance (and sometimes 5-10 fps more) on Linux
and Windows on same exact hardware (in windows direct X i turn off the
things OpenGL can't do (sunshafts/etc) to test this).

As far as sound in wine with WoW. Maybe it's cause I use Pulse that
allows these things to function without problems. I know that when
wine was fixing sound a couple months ago (what 1.3.3?), the
wine-pulse patch didnt' work. SO I created Alsa duplex that pulse ran
through, but allowed wine devices to gain access to Alsa device
directly. This allowed native linux apps to use pulse
(mangler/rythmbox/etc) and other things to use alsa device directly
(flash in youtube for some reason/Wine-WoW). All works in conjunction
with each other.

Or since every windows program I used worked fine in the version
before sound fixes, I could have stayed with the wine-pulse patch. Or
could have waited for new Pulse that fixes the Alsa-plugin (before fix
alsa-plugin would loose sound after so long in pulse).

--
Sincerely,

MacNean C. Tyrrell

JontomXire · Post by **JontomXire** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:58 am

Hello again, Dardack.

What is this "alsa duplex that Pulse ran through" and how do I set it up? What packages do I need to install?

As for same performance in WoW on both Linux and Windows, I remember you saying that before, but since I have (AFAIK) followed the exact same steps as you, I don't know why I get such a massive discrepancy. It's bad enough that WoW doesn't even allow the best graphics levels with OpenGL, the frame rate sucks even at lowest settings. On Windows with a 32 bit incorrect OS I get better frame rate at better settings.

The only reason I can think of is that you are using such massively over-specced graphics cards that they have processing power to spare in both Linux and under Windows. As my graphics cards are slightly under-spec, certainly for the highest levels of quality for graphics, they cope ok with medium quality levels of graphics under Windows and struggle even at the lowest levels under Linux. I suspect you are, as it were, over the graphics cap for both Windows and Linux.

As stated in another thread, it's cheaper to spend £80 on Windows and get a big boost in graphics performance than to spend several hundreds of pounds on new graphics cards.

If you can think of any reason why my graphics performance is so bad, I'd love to hear it. My setup is:

Kubuntu 10.04 LTS
Running WoW under OpenGL.
No registry edits that I can think of ( I believe I took them all out when they made no difference).
Proprietary NVidia drivers.

I believe I am running the latest version of Wine from a custom repository, not the distribution's repository. I looked into building it myself, but had dependency issues and also there didn't seem tobe much point.

dardack · Post by **dardack** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:48 am

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:58 AM, JontomXire <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello again, Dardack.

What is this "alsa duplex that Pulse ran through" and how do I set it up? What packages do I need to install?

forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=13182&start=64

Don't do all of that. I had special circumstances with Pulse. Some
people reported that sound worked up to the line:

then in terminal:
Code:
WINEPREFIX="your prefix path here" regedit alsareg.reg

Open winecfg go to audio tab and make sure Alsa is checked and
Emulation is selected.

Stop there. Don't compile Pulse.

But again if you really want, you can drop back to 1.3.24 and compile
wine-pulse patch (Yes I know it's not officially supported or
supported by wine and can't ask questions about it here on the mailing
list). 1.3.24 worked very well with WoW and the wine-pulse patch
allowed perfect sound with pulse.

As for same performance in WoW on both Linux and Windows, I remember you saying that before, but since I have (AFAIK) followed the exact same steps as you, I don't know why I get such a massive discrepancy. It's bad enough that WoW doesn't even allow the best graphics levels with OpenGL, the frame rate sucks even at lowest settings. On Windows with a 32 bit incorrect OS I get better frame rate at better settings.

Don't know. I make sure all my hardware is 100% supported in Linux
before purchasing anything. I dual boot on that laptop and like I
said with same settings get 5-10 fps more in Linux.

It's not wow's Fault. OpenGL is limited in that area. I mean I know
they are putting those things in later versions, but I think MS
backported some of that stuff to DX 9 (like the sunshafts?) but you
can't even max some of thsoe things in DX9 cause they aren't supported
in 9. You can only max everything if you use DX11 IIRC.

The only reason I can think of is that you are using such massively over-specced graphics cards that they have processing power to spare in both Linux and under Windows. As my graphics cards are slightly under-spec, certainly for the highest levels of quality for graphics, they cope ok with medium quality levels of graphics under Windows and struggle even at the lowest levels under Linux. I suspect you are, as it were, over the graphics cap for both Windows and Linux.

I'ts only GTX 260m. It's not overly specced. With SWTOR doubt in win
it will play anywhere near max.

As stated in another thread, it's cheaper to spend £80 on Windows and get a big boost in graphics performance than to spend several hundreds of pounds on new graphics cards.

OK that's your choice. I use Linux mainly for
programming/server/MythTV purposes. My gaming rig is straight up Win
7 64 bit. However, I dual boot on my laptop because I travel for
work/personal reasons. If I'm just going to play WoW I never boot
into windows. But with SWTOR since it's not running in Linux right
now, and I don't want to spend time figuring it out, I would boot into
windows for that. (Haven't installed the beta on my laptop. May this
coming up beta stress test since I'm traveling to see my sis).

If you can think of any reason why my graphics performance is so bad, I'd love to hear it. My setup is:

Kubuntu 10.04 LTS
Running WoW under OpenGL.
No registry edits that I can think of ( I believe I took them all out when they made no difference).
Proprietary NVidia drivers.

What driver NV version you using?

I can't think of anything I haven't said before. I thought you went
to windows anyways (from a previous post). I mean you're looking to
run things on linux that weren't developed natively to run on Linux.
I don't agree with some of the things you said, but it's not bad to
run Windows in any sense. Some people refuse to, but many use both if
not all 3 main OS's (Mac/linux/windows). Me personally, as with
having kids/less time, I find that because I just want to play games
when i have time, I play on Windows more then I ever did in my
teens/20's/early 30's. That doesn't mean I don't like linux and what
it can do. My linux server, mythtv server, mythtv frontend have been
running for over 2 years without interuption, where my Windows machine
can't do that. Even in 7 after a few days to a couple weeks it needs
to reboot or it even has blue screened a couple times.

It's 1 reason I support Humble Bundle so much, because all games work
on every platform. The more games that run natively on linux, the
better for linux as a whole. But expecting same exact performance
from windows to linux is not something I expect. I was suprised I got
the performance in Linux in WoW. But Blizz has always worked with
CodeWeavers (like when a ton of users were banned because their anti
cheat thing tagged it as a bot or something, and even had a beta Linux
Client back in the day) and WoW has a native OpenGL setting. Past
that any other game I get less performance, but it's not that big of a
deal most of the time. Normally I only loose 10% if not less when
comparing Win/Linux. I've played SC2/and many games I purchased on
steam.

Anyways this post was way longer then I meant.

I believe I am running the latest version of Wine from a custom repository, not the distribution's repository. I looked into building it myself, but had dependency issues and also there didn't seem tobe much point.

I always self compile. But that's just me. Even if I'm not patching
Wine. Now I'm assuming that Kubuntu uses the same apt-get. Just sudo
apt-get build-dep wine1.3

You'll have to enable the wine PPA for 1.3. Otherwise Ubuntu only has
1.2 dependencies so you'll be missing some, but the 2-3 missing aren't
a big deal. I think one is OpenAL and one is Gstreamer Plugin. I
never had issue not having those resolved.

--
Sincerely,

MacNean C. Tyrrell

JontomXire · Post by **JontomXire** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:01 am

You are awesome.

I am definitely going to give that sound thing one last go, even if just for the experience, etc. etc.

When your guide says:

or manually edit the registry of your wineprefix

What is my "wineprefix"? Also when it says:

WINEPREFIX="your prefix path here" regedit alsareg.reg

What is my prefix path?

Normally to run Wine's regedit I just type:

wine regedit

I've never heard of wineprefix, so a little confused.

dardack · Post by **dardack** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:02 pm

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:01 AM, JontomXire <[email protected]> wrote:

You are awesome.

I am definitely going to give that sound thing one last go, even if just for the experience, etc. etc.

When your guide says:

or manually edit the registry of your wineprefix

What is my "wineprefix"? Also when it says:

WINEPREFIX="your prefix path here" regedit alsareg.reg

What is my prefix path?

Normally to run Wine's regedit I just type:

wine regedit

that just edits the registry in ~/.wine You can have a ton of
Wineprefix's that allow you to edit the registry among other things
that maybe specific to the type of program you are running. For me I
have:

.wineWow
.wineStarCraft2
.wineSteam
.wineSteamwithSpecialsforcertaingames
etc

so if you only use ~/.wine than you can just regedit alsareg.reg

but if you want diff wineprefixes to test so if it does mess up your
not messing up the prefix for your other games, you can do:

WINEPREFIX="/home/username/.wineTestingSound" regedit alsareg.reg

I hope I explained this well. I tend to not articulate what I mean
very well at times.

I've never heard of wineprefix, so a little confused.

--
Sincerely,

MacNean C. Tyrrell

JontomXire · Post by **JontomXire** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:02 am

Very well explained, thanks.

I learn something new from every one of your posts.

Also, we've found that running WoW under Windows 7 is not without its own problems. The screen size/resolution keeps self-adjusting to something pointless - display only - mouseclicks map to the original resolution. It's easily fixed by jumping to Windows then going back to WoW, but could easily cause raid wipes, so...

I'm feeling quite depressed by this whole saga. I'm considering getting an NVIDIA GT440 graphics card (which supports DirectX 11) and is relatively cheap. The cheapest GTX card I can get is the one I bought two of for my other PC and costs more than twice as much. Costs are:

NVIDIA GT 440 - £43
NVIDIA GTX 550 Ti - £105

That's shopping at the site I get all my computer stuff at. I may be able to find a different GTX model for cheaper somewhere if I look around hard enough.

A WoW friend I spoke to on Vent last night, who says she "isn't an expert but knows more about hardware than most people" says that my box with all new components bar graphics cards is likely to wreck the system. She claims the stress on the other components of trying to run at their usual speed when held back by slow graphics cards is likely to cause them to break down. She used the analogy of a football team with 10 good players and one slacker and how the 10 good players get worn out trying to compensate for the slacker. I don't buy it myself. The bus regulates traffic speeds. The interrupts handle interactions. Voltages are all egulated by the power supply. I just don't get it. Anyway she recommended replacing the graphics card with a newer model immediately before my system melts down. I think I have lifetime guarantees on the RAM and maybe the CPU too, so I'm not too worried.

Anyway, if I do get a new graphics card, I would appreciate your opinion on what is likely to give me as good performance on Linux as on Windows, decent performance too, at a budget price.

I think I prefer NVIDIA, possibly ASUS. I've had good results from them in the past.

JontomXire · Post by **JontomXire** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:17 am

Ok, some more questions I'm afraid.

When your other post about pulse duplex says "pcm "hw:0" #Or whatever your card # is " how do i find out what my card is.

Also when it says "Open winecfg go to audio tab and make sure Alsa is checked and Emulation is selected" on the audio tab of my winecfg there is no check box to select Alsa, and nowhere to select "Emulation". It says "Selected driver: winealsa.drv" and allows me to select the device to use for output and input but that's it.

Lastly, under Kubuntu 10.04 LTS, I found under "System Settings-> MultiMedia" a dialogue that allows me to prioritise devices to use. It also has a "backend" tab to prioritise back ends. The only one listed is "Xine". So now I'm confused. Am I not using PulseAudio then? I thought that was the default. What is this Xine? I've never heard of it before.

tparker · Post by **tparker** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:45 am

On 11/20/2011 08:02 AM, JontomXire wrote:

Anyway, if I do get a new graphics card, I would appreciate your opinion on what is likely to give me as good performance on Linux as on Windows

It will be a long time, if ever, for the two to perform the same. Any
game that uses dx10 or 11 will be missing any features or options that
require them when playing in Linux because they are not yet supported.

If the bar you have set for games is to play the same as windows, then
you may be happier in windows for many games. If you are okay with games
being playable and stable but missing some graphics and are willing to
track down and deal with problems as wine functionality changes, stick
with an nvidia card since their linux drivers are still a bit more
functional than AMDs. My last card purchase I got an nvidia 460 - enough
card to work well with the rest of my hardware and still be able to do
dx10 and 11 if/when wine has that option and (at least in my area), a
budget price card.

dardack · Post by **dardack** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:19 pm

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:02 AM, JontomXire <[email protected]> wrote:

Very well explained, thanks.

I learn something new from every one of your posts.

Also, we've found that running WoW under Windows 7 is not without its own problems. The screen size/resolution keeps self-adjusting to something pointless - display only - mouseclicks map to the original resolution. It's easily fixed by jumping to Windows then going back to WoW, but could easily cause raid wipes, so...

I'm feeling quite depressed by this whole saga. I'm considering getting an NVIDIA GT440 graphics card (which supports DirectX 11) and is relatively cheap. The cheapest GTX card I can get is the one I bought two of for my other PC and costs more than twice as much. Costs are:

NVIDIA GT 440 - £43
NVIDIA GTX 550 Ti - £105

Personally Look at the 460. The x60+ are the better cards. Where 60
is a ton of bang for buck IMO. I got 2 460's for $190.

That's shopping at the site I get all my computer stuff at. I may be able to find a different GTX model for cheaper somewhere if I look around hard enough.

A WoW friend I spoke to on Vent last night, who says she "isn't an expert but knows more about hardware than most people" says that my box with all new components bar graphics cards is likely to wreck the system. She claims the stress on the other components of trying to run at their usual speed when held back by slow graphics cards is likely to cause them to break down. She used the analogy of a football team with 10 good players and one slacker and how the 10 good players get worn out trying to compensate for the slacker. I don't buy it myself. The bus regulates traffic speeds. The interrupts handle interactions. Voltages are all egulated by the power supply. I just don't get it. Anyway she recommended replacing the graphics card with a newer model immediately before my system melts down. I think I have lifetime guarantees on the RAM and maybe the CPU too, so I'm not too worried.

Um your botleneck is the GPU but that doesn't mean it's going to
meltdown, unless you don't have proper cooling or the fan on it dies
or something.

Anyway, if I do get a new graphics card, I would appreciate your opinion on what is likely to give me as good performance on Linux as on Windows, decent performance too, at a budget price.

I think I prefer NVIDIA, possibly ASUS. I've had good results from them in the past.

I Only go Nvidia, but nvidia doesn't sell direct AFAIK.
PNY/EVGA/MSI/Asus/Gigabyte/etc. all make cards with NVIDIA chipsets.
I bought PNY's, but hear great things about EVGA/ASUS.

--
Sincerely,

MacNean C. Tyrrell

dardack · Post by **dardack** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:26 pm

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:17 AM, JontomXire <[email protected]> wrote:

Ok, some more questions I'm afraid.

When your other post about pulse duplex says "pcm "hw:0" #Or whatever your card # is " how do i find out what my card is.

Also when it says "Open winecfg go to audio tab and make sure Alsa is checked and Emulation is selected" on the audio tab of my winecfg there is no check box to select Alsa, and nowhere to select "Emulation". It says "Selected driver: winealsa.drv" and allows me to select the device to use for output and input but that's it.

Yea wine 1.3.3 whatever changed that. You should be able to safely
ignore this part, but you can also I believe set this in the registry.

If you only have 1 card, i'ts probably safe to say hw:0 should work.
But: aplay -l

Lastly, under Kubuntu 10.04 LTS, I found under "System Settings-> MultiMedia" a dialogue that allows me to prioritise devices to use. It also has a "backend" tab to prioritise back ends. The only one listed is "Xine". So now I'm confused. Am I not using PulseAudio then? I thought that was the default. What is this Xine? I've never heard of it before.

Xine is a multimedia player AFAIK. So the MultiMedia must be to
prioritize multimedia programs, not actual sound devices. I think
Xine can be a bankend to send sound to other programs, but I believe
it's still using either Pulse or Alsa. You might want to install the
pulse-audio manager thingy. apt-get install padevchooser (IIRC) will
show you your sinks/etc that are being used, along with what programs
are using pulse for sound.

If you do thhat Pulse goes through alsa, alsa devices won't show
(youtube/flash in chrome, Wine programs, etc.).

--
Sincerely,

MacNean C. Tyrrell

JontomXire · Post by **JontomXire** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:37 am

I found that "pulseaudio" wasn't even installed, just the client libraries. So I installed it. Along with it came something called "pactl" which lists all sinks and sources. When I did this, it listed all sources and sinks as suspended, and trying to use pactl to un-suspend them as per the man page failed silently.

I also found that Mangler stopped working, so ran it with "padsp" for Pulse OSS emulation (as I read elsewhere) and that got me back to the same behaviour as previously.

I don't think I have OSS installed, so I'm really not sure how Mangler worked before.

In summary, I don't really know what sound servers I have installed, what sound servers I need to have installed, or what basic configuration I probably ought to have and don't.

I'd appreciate it if you could list me some commands to run to get a full dump of info that I could then post here so you can see what my system has and then advise as to what needs to be removed or what commands I might need to run to get the system into a basic "blank" setup state that I need to be in before setting up Pulse duplex.

Thanks for all your time and help on this. I really appreciate it.

JontomXire · Post by **JontomXire** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:11 am

dardack wrote:On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:02 AM, JontomXire <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm feeling quite depressed by this whole saga. I'm considering getting an NVIDIA GT440 graphics card (which supports DirectX 11) and is relatively cheap. The cheapest GTX card I can get is the one I bought two of for my other PC and costs more than twice as much. Costs are:

NVIDIA GT 440 - £43
NVIDIA GTX 550 Ti - £105

Personally Look at the 460. The x60+ are the better cards. Where 60
is a ton of bang for buck IMO. I got 2 460's for $190.

Do you mean GTX460? I can only see a GTX 460.

My other PC has twin GTX 550s,a nd looking at the spec they look better. Faster clock speeds and one or two more features. They are also 2/3 the price:

GTX460: http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/comp ... c-1gi.html
GTX550: http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/comp ... ay0yz.html

And for comparison, GT440: http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/comp ... i1gd3.html

I'd swear the price on the latter was around £40 the other day, but it's over £60 now!

dardack · Post by **dardack** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:22 am

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:11 AM, JontomXire <[email protected]> wrote:

dardack wrote:
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:02 AM, JontomXire <[email protected]> wrote:

I'm feeling quite depressed by this whole saga. I'm considering getting an NVIDIA GT440 graphics card (which supports DirectX 11) and is relatively cheap. The cheapest GTX card I can get is the one I bought two of for my other PC and costs more than twice as much. Costs are:

NVIDIA GT 440 - £43
NVIDIA GTX 550 Ti - £105

Personally Look at the 460. The x60+ are the better cards. Where 60
is a ton of bang for buck IMO. I got 2 460's for $190.

Do you mean GTX460? I can only see a GTX 460.

My other PC has twin GTX 550s,a nd looking at the spec they look better. Faster clock speeds and one or two more features. They are also 2/3 the price:

GTX460: http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/comp ... c-1gi.html
GTX550: http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/comp ... ay0yz.html

And for comparison, GT440: http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/comp ... i1gd3.html

I'd swear the price on the latter was around £40 the other day, but it's over £60 now!

OK, yes 550 is less then 460 (yes I mean GTX, don't get gts/gt for
gaming anyways). But it's not better. At least all previous it was
the x60 that went up in performance by tons compared to the x50. And
I believe the GFLOPS is better on the 460 compared to 550. Also the
bit for the 550 is only 192 and the 460 is 256. And the 550 is
cheaper then 460 because it's not as good when you get down to how it
actually runs AFAIK. I could be wrong, but since the 200 series the
x50 has been worse then the previous gens x60 in terms of performance.

Now looking at UK websites. Damn you guys getting ripped off. Or
maybe it's shipping. But I got 2 gtx 460's on sale with $30 mail in
rebate for under $100 total cost each. Which is like 64 pounds or
something. I mean I just looked newegg, think you can get 1 for $140
which is like 89 pounds.

--
Sincerely,

MacNean C. Tyrrell

dardack · Post by **dardack** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:25 am

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:37 AM, JontomXire <[email protected]> wrote:

I found that "pulseaudio" wasn't even installed, just the client libraries. So I installed it. Along with it came something called "pactl" which lists all sinks and sources. When I did this, it listed all sources and sinks as suspended, and trying to use pactl to un-suspend them as per the man page failed silently.

I also found that Mangler stopped working, so ran it with "padsp" for Pulse OSS emulation (as I read elsewhere) and that got me back to the same behaviour as previously.

I don't think I have OSS installed, so I'm really not sure how Mangler worked before.

In summary, I don't really know what sound servers I have installed, what sound servers I need to have installed, or what basic configuration I probably ought to have and don't.

I'd appreciate it if you could list me some commands to run to get a full dump of info that I could then post here so you can see what my system has and then advise as to what needs to be removed or what commands I might need to run to get the system into a basic "blank" setup state that I need to be in before setting up Pulse duplex.

Thanks for all your time and help on this. I really appreciate it.

OK I see you use kubuntu, doesn't Pulse come default? Sorry I only
use Ubuntu (although I'm prolly gonna drop to Mint or debian as I hate
Unity). If it comes default, you may need to start a fresh install.
I mean as long as you don't have anything set up specific for your
machine should be easy. I always partition my drive that 40 gigs for
OS, rest for /home, this was I can format / to reinstall if needed
cause I was messing with things so bad. I like to experiment with
things, and you can really F up things when you do.

--
Sincerely,

MacNean C. Tyrrell

JontomXire · Post by **JontomXire** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:45 am

dardack wrote: Now looking at UK websites. Damn you guys getting ripped off. Or
maybe it's shipping.

Shipping is extra

The UK is one of the most expensive places to live in the whole world. Check out our fuel prices

dardack wrote:On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:37 AM, JontomXire <[email protected]> wrote:
I found that "pulseaudio" wasn't even installed, just the client libraries. So I installed it. Along with it came something called "pactl" which lists all sinks and sources. When I did this, it listed all sources and sinks as suspended, and trying to use pactl to un-suspend them as per the man page failed silently.

I also found that Mangler stopped working, so ran it with "padsp" for Pulse OSS emulation (as I read elsewhere) and that got me back to the same behaviour as previously.

I don't think I have OSS installed, so I'm really not sure how Mangler worked before.

In summary, I don't really know what sound servers I have installed, what sound servers I need to have installed, or what basic configuration I probably ought to have and don't.

I'd appreciate it if you could list me some commands to run to get a full dump of info that I could then post here so you can see what my system has and then advise as to what needs to be removed or what commands I might need to run to get the system into a basic "blank" setup state that I need to be in before setting up Pulse duplex.

Thanks for all your time and help on this. I really appreciate it.

OK I see you use kubuntu, doesn't Pulse come default? Sorry I only
use Ubuntu (although I'm prolly gonna drop to Mint or debian as I hate
Unity). If it comes default, you may need to start a fresh install.
I mean as long as you don't have anything set up specific for your
machine should be easy. I always partition my drive that 40 gigs for
OS, rest for /home, this was I can format / to reinstall if needed
cause I was messing with things so bad. I like to experiment with
things, and you can really F up things when you do.

--
Sincerely,

MacNean C. Tyrrell

As far as sound stuff goes, I did mess around with it a bit, but then, as far as I can remember, put it back just the way it was after the install. And I distinctly remember seeing that the Pulse Audio package (the one with the server in it) wasn't installed then.

The trouble is that I can't list installed packages by type as far as I can see. So I don't really know what I have.

As for partitions, I have about 40Gb for OS and then most of the rest for /data which contains /data/home

Great minds think alike I guess. I do also have a huge Windows partition on there too for the same reason.

Is it possible you could make a list of all the packages installed on your system, filtering out any that are totally irrelevant, and post it here? I know it's a lot to ask.

As for Ubuntu flavours, all I know is that XUbuntu is supposed to be the cut down version, minimal desktop, etc. etc. and I used to install that one for precisely that reason. However as this is the wife's machine I figured Kubuntu would be more (inexperienced) user friendly and so a better choice.

What exactly are the differences between Ubuntu and Kubuntu?

dardack · Post by **dardack** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:09 pm

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:45 AM, JontomXire <[email protected]> wrote:

dardack wrote:
Now looking at UK websites. Damn you guys getting ripped off. Or
maybe it's shipping.
Shipping is extra The UK is one of the most expensive places to live in the whole world. Check out our fuel prices

dardack wrote:
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:37 AM, JontomXire <[email protected]> wrote:

I found that "pulseaudio" wasn't even installed, just the client libraries. So I installed it. Along with it came something called "pactl" which lists all sinks and sources. When I did this, it listed all sources and sinks as suspended, and trying to use pactl to un-suspend them as per the man page failed silently.

I also found that Mangler stopped working, so ran it with "padsp" for Pulse OSS emulation (as I read elsewhere) and that got me back to the same behaviour as previously.

I don't think I have OSS installed, so I'm really not sure how Mangler worked before.

In summary, I don't really know what sound servers I have installed, what sound servers I need to have installed, or what basic configuration I probably ought to have and don't.

I'd appreciate it if you could list me some commands to run to get a full dump of info that I could then post here so you can see what my system has and then advise as to what needs to be removed or what commands I might need to run to get the system into a basic "blank" setup state that I need to be in before setting up Pulse duplex.

Thanks for all your time and help on this. I really appreciate it.

OK I see you use kubuntu, doesn't Pulse come default? Sorry I only
use Ubuntu (although I'm prolly gonna drop to Mint or debian as I hate
Unity). If it comes default, you may need to start a fresh install.
I mean as long as you don't have anything set up specific for your
machine should be easy. I always partition my drive that 40 gigs for
OS, rest for /home, this was I can format / to reinstall if needed
cause I was messing with things so bad. I like to experiment with
things, and you can really F up things when you do.

--
Sincerely,

MacNean C. Tyrrell
As far as sound stuff goes, I did mess around with it a bit, but then, as far as I can remember, put it back just the way it was after the install. And I distinctly remember seeing that the Pulse Audio package (the one with the server in it) wasn't installed then.

The trouble is that I can't list installed packages by type as far as I can see. So I don't really know what I have.

As for partitions, I have about 40Gb for OS and then most of the rest for /data which contains /data/home Great minds think alike I guess. I do also have a huge Windows partition on there too for the same reason.

Is it possible you could make a list of all the packages installed on your system, filtering out any that are totally irrelevant, and post it here? I know it's a lot to ask.

As for Ubuntu flavours, all I know is that XUbuntu is supposed to be the cut down version, minimal desktop, etc. etc. and I used to install that one for precisely that reason. However as this is the wife's machine I figured Kubuntu would be more (inexperienced) user friendly and so a better choice.

What exactly are the differences between Ubuntu and Kubuntu?

U is gnome/unity. K is KDE. Why I think pulse should be installed by
default.

All packages are default Ubuntu + padevchooser + apt-get build-dep
wine1.3 + nvidia proprietary and that's about it.

--
Sincerely,

MacNean C. Tyrrell

tparker · Post by **tparker** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:12 pm

On 11/21/2011 10:22 AM, MacNean Tyrrell wrote:

OK, yes 550 is less then 460 (yes I mean GTX, don't get gts/gt for
gaming anyways). But it's not better. At least all previous it was the
x60 that went up in performance by tons compared to the x50.

I agree, even though we would expect all the "5xx" series cards to be
better than any of the "4xx" series cards that isn't the case. Nvidia
has a change in the card specs between the "x50" or less and the "x60"
or higher cards in any series. The higher than "x60" cards of a previous
series will be better hardware than the "x50" and lower cards of the new
series. It's annoying to remember and keep track of when comparing cards.

Damn you guys getting ripped off. Or maybe it's shipping. But I got 2
gtx 460's on sale with $30 mail in rebate for under $100 total cost
each. Which is like 64 pounds or something. I mean I just looked
newegg, think you can get 1 for $140 which is like 89 pounds.

Ick, yes. In a previous post when he said it was cheaper for him to buy
windows than to get a new graphics card I thought he was high, then I
checked UK prices.