HI
Several apps worked f.ex FSX in 1.3.7 but now no more. it was better in 1.3.30 even 1.3.31 seems to add several new bugs...
sigh...
more bugs than features added?
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Frédéric Delanoy
more bugs than features added?
On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:08, ahso <[email protected]> wrote:
report it but don't whine.
How is such a rant supposed to help? If you find a regression or bug,HI
Several apps worked f.ex FSX in 1.3.7 but now no more. it was better in 1.3.30 even 1.3.31 seems to add several new bugs...
sigh...
report it but don't whine.
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jjmckenzie
- Moderator
- Posts: 1153
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:01 pm
Re: more bugs than features added?
I know that you are a long time Wine user but I'm going to say the following:ahso wrote:HI
Several apps worked f.ex FSX in 1.3.7 but now no more. it was better in 1.3.30 even 1.3.31 seems to add several new bugs...
sigh...
As features are added, code that is needed for other features/functions is uncovered. However, if you had a game/program working in a certain version and an 'upgrade' broke it, the project needs to know so that the project's developers can fix it. Running regression tests (http://wiki.winehq.org/RegressionTesting) is a requirement. Please do so for this program and then file a bug report, if one does not already exist. Otherwise problems/bugs will not and cannot be 'fixed'.
Thank you.
James
Re: more bugs than features added?
To which I would add: the purpose of the development branch is to test new code and uncover bugs so they can be fixed. If you are routinely upgrading every two weeks, you have volunteered to be a tester. That's wonderful; the more people testing and filing bugs, the better Wine gets. But as two people have already told you, you have to actually file bugs; whining here about unspecified problems serves no purpose.jjmckenzie wrote:As features are added, code that is needed for other features/functions is uncovered.
And if you are not willing or able to risk having to cope with regressions (e.g., there is an app crucial to your work), then you should stick with the version of Wine you know works. No one is forced to upgrade every two weeks.
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lahmbi5678
- Level 7
- Posts: 823
- Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:23 am
In a certain way wine has always been a beta version and will stay for some time.
For a future stable release, say wine 1.6, a quality criterion should be the ability to run all userland apps designed for Windows XP and before (apart from Win16, DOS, drivers and other hardware related or system related stuff like defragmentation tools). The idea behind would be to get a solid basis, i.e. you can say, everything designed for WinXP&earlier will run for the average user without issues.
Wine is slowly moving into that direction, on the other hand there are lots of smaller regressions and people want to run the most bleeding edge MS Offices and IEs, a lot of contributions from CodeWeavers are devoted to them. From a conceptual perspective I'd argue, get WinXP and the older stuff right, before you move on to Windows 7 and IE9, but most of the development is driven and paid by Codeweavers, and it is perfectly legitimate for them to concentrate their effort on what their users want to see running.
Imagine Codeweavers closing all the old gaps first, but going bancrupt, because the users wanted to run Office 2010 first, then they could say, "Hey, we did it conceptually right, what went wrong?". That is of course not what I'd want to live to see.
And don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the progress that was made with DIB engine, .NET and even USB drivers, the prospect of seeing all that stuff run flawlessly is awesome.
For a future stable release, say wine 1.6, a quality criterion should be the ability to run all userland apps designed for Windows XP and before (apart from Win16, DOS, drivers and other hardware related or system related stuff like defragmentation tools). The idea behind would be to get a solid basis, i.e. you can say, everything designed for WinXP&earlier will run for the average user without issues.
Wine is slowly moving into that direction, on the other hand there are lots of smaller regressions and people want to run the most bleeding edge MS Offices and IEs, a lot of contributions from CodeWeavers are devoted to them. From a conceptual perspective I'd argue, get WinXP and the older stuff right, before you move on to Windows 7 and IE9, but most of the development is driven and paid by Codeweavers, and it is perfectly legitimate for them to concentrate their effort on what their users want to see running.
Imagine Codeweavers closing all the old gaps first, but going bancrupt, because the users wanted to run Office 2010 first, then they could say, "Hey, we did it conceptually right, what went wrong?". That is of course not what I'd want to live to see.
And don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the progress that was made with DIB engine, .NET and even USB drivers, the prospect of seeing all that stuff run flawlessly is awesome.
lahmbi it's possible to choose the Windows version in Winecfg.
Ah so it's possible to do a regression from Wine 1.3.7 to 1.3.31? Didn't know that, should i google for such or anyone has a link?
The're certainly some people, as always, trying to break Wine. So when an *.exe stops working it makes me think that there's something to improve in wine quality control?
Similar for winetricks. there are 3 or even more DX versions but I only found one working. Also for changing Win versions there's no need as we can set it in winecfg.
Ah so it's possible to do a regression from Wine 1.3.7 to 1.3.31? Didn't know that, should i google for such or anyone has a link?
The're certainly some people, as always, trying to break Wine. So when an *.exe stops working it makes me think that there's something to improve in wine quality control?
Similar for winetricks. there are 3 or even more DX versions but I only found one working. Also for changing Win versions there's no need as we can set it in winecfg.
http://wiki.winehq.org/RegressionTestingahso wrote:Ah so it's possible to do a regression from Wine 1.3.7 to 1.3.31? Didn't know that, should i google for such or anyone has a link?
Reread my earlier post.So when an *.exe stops working it makes me think that there's something to improve in wine quality control?
Report problems with winetricks at http://winetricks.org/Similar for winetricks. there are 3 or even more DX versions but I only found one working. Also for changing Win versions there's no need as we can set it in winecfg.
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lahmbi5678
- Level 7
- Posts: 823
- Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:23 am
Hi JuanPabloCuervo,
I don't think, Codeweavers and the wine project have been infiltrated, the current regressions are due to some inevitable bugs and architectural changes. There have been a lot of situations in the past with the same instabilities The DIB engine stuff or sound system changes are developed to do do things right(tm), instead of hacks, that will have to be repaired every few releases. Unfortunately that will mean regressions for some time now.
MS probably won't want to kill the wine project as a whole, because they may need competitors, if it comes again to an antitrust action. MS might change its opinion, if wine or reactos were capable of emulating a current Windows version like Windows 7, but that is very unrealistic. As long as wine is lagging behind, MS will certainly tolerate it. Wine is about to reach something like almost perfect Windows XP compatibility soon, but otoh Windows XP will run out of support in 2014. But most applications are still developed to be run on Windows XP, so the situation isn't too bad.
If there's one opensource project, that was infiltrated, then it's KDE with its bloated KDE 4, a bit like SAP software, both are expecting the user and the reality/processes to be adjusted to the software and not vice versa, as it should be. The KDE 4 guys are closely followed by the Gnome guys with Unity, their general motto: "all your configs are belong to us" and their Unity motto: "use mobile GUI or d..". Both KDE and Gnome expect you to get recent graphics hardware just for a simple GUI, of course you don't have to, but then your KDE/Gnome will either be slow (in a lot of cases) or dysfunctional (Unity). If I'm on linux, I usually use a really old KDE version (3.5 from opensuse) or LXDE.
I don't think, Codeweavers and the wine project have been infiltrated, the current regressions are due to some inevitable bugs and architectural changes. There have been a lot of situations in the past with the same instabilities The DIB engine stuff or sound system changes are developed to do do things right(tm), instead of hacks, that will have to be repaired every few releases. Unfortunately that will mean regressions for some time now.
MS probably won't want to kill the wine project as a whole, because they may need competitors, if it comes again to an antitrust action. MS might change its opinion, if wine or reactos were capable of emulating a current Windows version like Windows 7, but that is very unrealistic. As long as wine is lagging behind, MS will certainly tolerate it. Wine is about to reach something like almost perfect Windows XP compatibility soon, but otoh Windows XP will run out of support in 2014. But most applications are still developed to be run on Windows XP, so the situation isn't too bad.
If there's one opensource project, that was infiltrated, then it's KDE with its bloated KDE 4, a bit like SAP software, both are expecting the user and the reality/processes to be adjusted to the software and not vice versa, as it should be. The KDE 4 guys are closely followed by the Gnome guys with Unity, their general motto: "all your configs are belong to us" and their Unity motto: "use mobile GUI or d..". Both KDE and Gnome expect you to get recent graphics hardware just for a simple GUI, of course you don't have to, but then your KDE/Gnome will either be slow (in a lot of cases) or dysfunctional (Unity). If I'm on linux, I usually use a really old KDE version (3.5 from opensuse) or LXDE.
