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 Post Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:06 am 
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Posts: 161
Timeout wrote:
Dan Kegel wrote:
OpenOffice may be a good substitute, but there is a world of people out there
WHO. WILL. NOT. ACCEPT. ANY. CHANGES.
in their tools. I've run into it many times myself. (And yes, these same
people happily accept Office 2007. Go figure. I think they just feel safe with
Microsoft.)


And I have clients who will not accept that an indent or a page break does not look like the same on the document they get back (when done on open office) as on the document they sent and instead of correcting it themselves, they will rather send you the text 10 times and hold you the whole morning on the phone about the format issue (and I am not talking about the case when the issue is caused due to a different printer's driver).
I have clients that send the text as docx and expect it as docx because that's their right as paying client and OpenOffice can not save it so.


I could return your comment about games vs productive tools:
I never understood why people would use a computer for games. For games a video console is much more appropriate (besides the question Windows vs Linux). Buying a computer solely to play (and when taking account of the hardware requirements) is really a waste of money, not to speak that due to the progress of computers you can't even play old games on new computer or you will crash on the wall before you even start to play (game from '92).

That statement for old games is valid for Windows games only imho :D
I uninstalled basic games like XBoing recently from my workstation.
According to its homepage, XBoing is from '95 and it still works :) .


Top 
 Post Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:18 pm 
 
On Tuesday 13 May 2008 03:36:44 am Timeout wrote:

Quote:
I could return your comment about games vs productive tools:
I never understood why people would use a computer for games. For games a
video console is much more appropriate (besides the question Windows vs
Linux). Buying a computer solely to play (and when taking account of the
hardware requirements) is really a waste of money,

Never mind that there hasn't been a console built yet that has decent,
responsive-enough controls for some gaming situations. Playing an FPS on a
console is nigh impossible: That kind of gaming absolutely depends on a
keyboard and mouse.

Quote:
not to speak that due to
the progress of computers you can't even play old games on new computer or
you will crash on the wall before you even start to play (game from '92).

Sure you can. Get an environment that'll slow it down to a playable speed,
like mo-slo, etc.

--
Paul Johnson
baloo@ursine.ca

Explaination of .pgp part: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Mail/rant-gpg.html
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 Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:11 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:45 pm
Posts: 183
Location: Austria
Paul Johnson wrote:
Never mind that there hasn't been a console built yet that has decent,
responsive-enough controls for some gaming situations. Playing an FPS on a
console is nigh impossible: That kind of gaming absolutely depends on a
keyboard and mouse.


That's a matter of time. The new movement sensitive controls of wii and playstation could do very well with you moving around and shooting everything. Some tuning from game developpers and you will be computer free.

--
Paul Johnson
baloo@ursine.ca

Explaination of .pgp part: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Mail/rant-gpg.html
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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:26 pm 
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Posts: 37
I don't think you realize, the survey is bogus. You can't do a survey on a per application basis as there are many games and the vote would be split amongst many different "applications" even though they are all asking for the same thing, game support. As for people that will "never, ever, ever, ever use anything but m$ office", well, they are never, ever, ever, ever, ever, going to use anything other than m$ windows either. I feel the exact same way as the OP, game support is far more pressing than any other application with the possible exception of photoshop (all the others have equivalences that are just as good or better, and it's a waste of resources making them work first).

Honestly, the people who won't switch apps probably won't switch OS's either, think about it. And if it's not too much trouble, there should be a new survey with the following options, "games", "office products", "trade products". Simple as that. List examples, m$ goes under office products, autocad, photoshop go under trade, games are obvious. Look at the forum posts, it's constantly someone trying to get a game to work, it's almost never someone with a photoshop problem.

Games keep Mac OS from being popular, Games are what is keeping people from switching to linux. If you could boast native support for video games on linux, the games performance is almost always better under linux than vista (based upon the games that do work under wine), and there are people (I know this is hard to believe) that will do whatever it takes to squeeze out 1-2 FPS out of a video game. This includes tweaking hardware, messing with config files, and switching OS's.

Really something to consider.


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 Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:33 pm 
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On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 12:26 PM, ulberon <wineforum-user@winehq.org> wrote:
Quote:
You can't do a survey on a per application basis as
there are many games and the vote would be split amongst
many different "applications" even though they are all asking
for the same thing, game support.

I could be wrong, but "game support" isn't a single thing, it's a
whole bunch of things.

Each game is going to run into slightly different bugs, just as
each non-game app does.

So the split vote probably reflects reality better than you expect.

I'm confident that the current approach of targeting a small
handful of the most popular apps (including, it seems, one or so
games like WoW) until they work well is going to pay off.
- Dan


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:20 pm 
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Posts: 7
OP here.

Limpador wrote:
I'll try today if MaxPayne 2 (another Platinum rated Game) works.

Getting the same error with MaxPayne2. (rated here: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=2166)


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 Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:41 pm 
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DanKegel wrote:
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 12:26 PM, ulberon <wineforum-user@winehq.org> wrote:
Quote:
You can't do a survey on a per application basis as
there are many games and the vote would be split amongst
many different "applications" even though they are all asking
for the same thing, game support.

I could be wrong, but "game support" isn't a single thing, it's a
whole bunch of things.

Each game is going to run into slightly different bugs, just as
each non-game app does.

So the split vote probably reflects reality better than you expect.

I'm confident that the current approach of targeting a small
handful of the most popular apps (including, it seems, one or so
games like WoW) until they work well is going to pay off.
- Dan


Well, to be more explicit then, substitute every time I said "game support" with "directx" and it's the same point.

I think it is fair to say that directx isn't well supported, yet many games run fine with what has been implemented. How much of the API really needs to be implemented to support whole classes of video games? I mean, come on, MS outlook is number 10 and MS word is number 6. I really don't want to be rude, but you have to ask the question: Are the people who voted for those two applications stupid? Go download openoffice and thunderbird. Do they want IE8 to work under wine too?


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 Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:21 am 
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On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 7:41 PM, ulberon <wineforum-user@winehq.org> wrote:
Quote:
Well, to be more explicit then, substitute every time I said "game support"
with "directx" and it's the same point.

Yes, and just as before, "directx" isn't just one little checkbox,
it's a whole bunch
of stuff, lots of work to implement. And if you hadn't noticed, we're steadily
making progress on it.

Quote:
I mean, come on, MS outlook is number 10 and MS word is number 6.
I really don't want to be rude, but you have to ask the question:
Are the people who voted for those two applications stupid?
Go download openoffice and thunderbird. Do they want IE8 to work under wine too?

Believe it or not, openoffice still does not handle all documents properly.
I've seen this myself, and this has forced me to use MS Word.
Last I checked, I wasn't an idiot.
And some offices require all their users to use outlook!

In short, the world does not revolve around gamers, other users need
their killer apps on wine, too. We are supporting
you along with those other users. Enjoy the free support. Please stop looking
this particular gift horse in the mouth.

Now, if you have $50K or so kicking around, maybe you can direct
more Wine development towards gaming. Or maybe not; it might
be hard to find somebody skilled enough to do it. Good luck!
- Dan


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 Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:36 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:43 am
Posts: 37
DanKegel wrote:
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 7:41 PM, ulberon <wineforum-user@winehq.org> wrote:
Quote:
Well, to be more explicit then, substitute every time I said "game support"
with "directx" and it's the same point.

Yes, and just as before, "directx" isn't just one little checkbox,
it's a whole bunch
of stuff, lots of work to implement. And if you hadn't noticed, we're steadily
making progress on it.

Quote:
I mean, come on, MS outlook is number 10 and MS word is number 6.
I really don't want to be rude, but you have to ask the question:
Are the people who voted for those two applications stupid?
Go download openoffice and thunderbird. Do they want IE8 to work under wine too?

Believe it or not, openoffice still does not handle all documents properly.
I've seen this myself, and this has forced me to use MS Word.
Last I checked, I wasn't an idiot.
And some offices require all their users to use outlook!

In short, the world does not revolve around gamers, other users need
their killer apps on wine, too. We are supporting
you along with those other users. Enjoy the free support. Please stop looking
this particular gift horse in the mouth.

Now, if you have $50K or so kicking around, maybe you can direct
more Wine development towards gaming. Or maybe not; it might
be hard to find somebody skilled enough to do it. Good luck!
- Dan


Well, in that case....going through the dxd9_36.spec I don't see "D3DXColorAdd" or "D3DXColorLerp", so does that mean it should be added?

Example:
Goto d3dx9math.h and add "D3DXCOLOR* WINAPI D3DXColorAdd(
D3DXCOLOR * pOut,
CONST D3DXCOLOR * pC1,
CONST D3DXCOLOR * pC2
);"

?

And is the .spec automatically generated or should I add: @ stub D3DXColorAdd ..." to the file as well?

Once this is made clear, I'm good to go.


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 Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:50 am 
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ulberon wrote:
Well, in that case....going through the dxd9_36.spec I don't see "D3DXColorAdd" or "D3DXColorLerp", so does that mean it should be added?

No that means you are looking in the wrong place. It's an inline function defined in include/d3dx9math.inl


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 Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:16 am 
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On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:36 PM, ulberon <wineforum-user@winehq.org> wrote:
Quote:
Well, in that case....going through the dxd9_36.spec I don't see
"D3DXColorAdd" or "D3DXColorLerp", so does that mean it should be added?

Assuming your game needs it, and assuming it's there in the Windows
version of that dll, sure (though I know little about DirectX, you might check
with someone who does).

Quote:
Example:
Goto d3dx9math.h and add "D3DXCOLOR* WINAPI D3DXColorAdd(
D3DXCOLOR * pOut,
CONST D3DXCOLOR * pC1,
CONST D3DXCOLOR * pC2
);"

?

It's already there in d3dx9math.inl, that's probably enough.

But since this is an inline function, why would it need to be
exported from the .dll? Better doublecheck that it is, and
check with a wine d3d9 developer...

Quote:
And is the .spec automatically generated or should I add: @ stub D3DXColorAdd ..." to the file as well?

.spec files are manually written, so you probably need to add an
entry there. A stub probably isn't enough (games that need to add colors
probably won't run well if that function isn't really implemented).
Many of those functions are forwarded to their d3dx8 versions,
perhaps that's needed here.

- Dan


Top 
 Post Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:11 am
Posts: 8
I've found exactly the same problem with Wine rc-1 on 64bit with other directX programs, here's my traceback from zooempire:

Code:
Register dump:
 CS:0023 SS:002b DS:002b ES:002b FS:0063 GS:006b
 EIP:7c0be138 ESP:0033e448 EBP:0033e494 EFLAGS:00010202(   - 00      - -RI1)
 EAX:0033e478 EBX:7e74cc84 ECX:001358f8 EDX:7e74d920
 ESI:00000000 EDI:7e73abc7
Stack dump:
0x0033e448:  7e6dcdf9 00008775 0033e478 00000000
0x0033e458:  00000002 00000002 00000001 00000001
0x0033e468:  7e6dd271 7e73abc7 3f800000 7e73abc7
0x0033e478:  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
0x0033e488:  7e74cc84 00000006 00000043 0033e514
0x0033e498:  7e68174c 000000d8 00138ef8 01a64ec0
Backtrace:
=>1 0x7c0be138 (0x0033e494)
  2 0x7e68174c ActivateContext+0x4fc() in wined3d (0x0033e514)
  3 0x7e6b626b drawPrimitive+0x17b() in wined3d (0x0033e824)
  4 0x7e68dfcb in wined3d (+0x2dfcb) (0x0033e894)
  5 0x7e767c5e in d3d9 (+0x7c5e) (0x0033e8c4)
  6 0x0061dcfb in ze (+0x21dcfb) (0x0033e8ec)
  7 0x005f682d in ze (+0x1f682d) (0x0033f5ac)
  8 0x0060cce5 in ze (+0x20cce5) (0x0033f604)
  9 0x0060aa14 in ze (+0x20aa14) (0x0033f6d4)
  10 0x0062ad6f in ze (+0x22ad6f) (0x0033f738)
  11 0x00641dd5 in ze (+0x241dd5) (0x0033f744)
  12 0x006dc0ea in ze (+0x2dc0ea) (0x0033fddc)
  13 0x00429efb in ze (+0x29efb) (0x0033fdec)
  14 0x00429000 in ze (+0x29000) (0x0033fe64)
  15 0x0044fd27 in ze (+0x4fd27) (0x0033fe70)
  16 0x00548a8f in ze (+0x148a8f) (0x0033fe7c)
  17 0x0088eea6 in ze (+0x48eea6) (0x0033ff08)
  18 0x7b8776d7 in kernel32 (+0x576d7) (0x0033ffe8)
0x7c0be138: movl   0x7d5e8960,%eax
Modules:
Module   Address         Debug info   Name (112 modules)
PE     400000- 1052000   Export          ze
PE    1060000- 1138000   Deferred        openal32
PE    7260000- 7299000   Deferred        wmasf
PE    8530000- 872d000   Deferred        wmvcore
PE   10000000-10044000   Deferred        v3d_87
ELF   7b800000-7b92d000   Export          kernel32<elf>
  \-PE   7b820000-7b92d000   \               kernel32
ELF   7b95f000-7ba01000   Deferred        oleaut32<elf>
  \-PE   7b970000-7ba01000   \               oleaut32
ELF   7bc00000-7bca4000   Deferred        ntdll<elf>
  \-PE   7bc10000-7bca4000   \               ntdll
ELF   7bd16000-7bd7f000   Deferred        msvcrt<elf>
  \-PE   7bd30000-7bd7f000   \               msvcrt
ELF   7bf00000-7bf03000   Deferred        <wine-loader>
ELF   7bf16000-7bf60000   Deferred        dsound<elf>
  \-PE   7bf20000-7bf60000   \               dsound
ELF   7c569000-7d574000   Deferred        fglrx_dri.so
ELF   7d574000-7d5ee000   Export          libgl.so.1
ELF   7d67f000-7d68a000   Deferred        libgcc_s.so.1
ELF   7d69e000-7d6c4000   Deferred        msacm32<elf>
  \-PE   7d6a0000-7d6c4000   \               msacm32
ELF   7d6c4000-7d6db000   Deferred        msacm32<elf>
  \-PE   7d6d0000-7d6db000   \               msacm32
ELF   7dedc000-7dee5000   Deferred        librt.so.1
ELF   7dee5000-7defd000   Deferred        libice.so.6
ELF   7defd000-7df4b000   Deferred        libpulse.so.0
ELF   7df4b000-7df5f000   Deferred        midimap<elf>
  \-PE   7df50000-7df5f000   \               midimap
ELF   7df5f000-7e022000   Deferred        libasound.so.2
ELF   7e022000-7e057000   Deferred        winealsa<elf>
  \-PE   7e030000-7e057000   \               winealsa
ELF   7e057000-7e05b000   Deferred        libgpg-error.so.0
ELF   7e05b000-7e0a8000   Deferred        libgcrypt.so.11
ELF   7e0a8000-7e0b8000   Deferred        libtasn1.so.3
ELF   7e0b8000-7e0c0000   Deferred        libkrb5support.so.0
ELF   7e0c0000-7e0f2000   Deferred        libcrypt.so.1
ELF   7e0f2000-7e167000   Deferred        libgnutls.so.13
ELF   7e167000-7e18a000   Deferred        libk5crypto.so.3
ELF   7e18a000-7e217000   Deferred        libkrb5.so.3
ELF   7e217000-7e240000   Deferred        libgssapi_krb5.so.2
ELF   7e240000-7e273000   Deferred        libcups.so.2
ELF   7e275000-7e279000   Deferred        libcap.so.1
ELF   7e279000-7e281000   Deferred        libsm.so.6
ELF   7e281000-7e287000   Deferred        libasound_module_pcm_pulse.so
ELF   7e2d0000-7e303000   Deferred        uxtheme<elf>
  \-PE   7e2e0000-7e303000   \               uxtheme
ELF   7e303000-7e30c000   Deferred        libxcursor.so.1
ELF   7e30c000-7e311000   Deferred        libxfixes.so.3
ELF   7e311000-7e314000   Deferred        libxcomposite.so.1
ELF   7e314000-7e31a000   Deferred        libxrandr.so.2
ELF   7e31a000-7e322000   Deferred        libxrender.so.1
ELF   7e322000-7e325000   Deferred        libxinerama.so.1
ELF   7e325000-7e345000   Deferred        imm32<elf>
  \-PE   7e330000-7e345000   \               imm32
ELF   7e345000-7e34a000   Deferred        libxdmcp.so.6
ELF   7e34a000-7e362000   Deferred        libxcb.so.1
ELF   7e362000-7e364000   Deferred        libxcb-xlib.so.0
ELF   7e364000-7e367000   Deferred        libxau.so.6
ELF   7e367000-7e44e000   Deferred        libx11.so.6
ELF   7e44e000-7e45c000   Deferred        libxext.so.6
ELF   7e45c000-7e461000   Deferred        libxxf86vm.so.1
ELF   7e463000-7e466000   Deferred        libkeyutils.so.1
ELF   7e470000-7e473000   Deferred        libcom_err.so.2
ELF   7e475000-7e50b000   Deferred        winex11<elf>
  \-PE   7e480000-7e50b000   \               winex11
ELF   7e51c000-7e53d000   Deferred        libexpat.so.1
ELF   7e53d000-7e567000   Deferred        libfontconfig.so.1
ELF   7e567000-7e57c000   Deferred        libz.so.1
ELF   7e57c000-7e5ec000   Deferred        libfreetype.so.6
ELF   7e600000-7e637000   Deferred        dinput<elf>
  \-PE   7e610000-7e637000   \               dinput
ELF   7e637000-7e64f000   Deferred        dinput8<elf>
  \-PE   7e640000-7e64f000   \               dinput8
ELF   7e64f000-7e751000   Export          wined3d<elf>
  \-PE   7e660000-7e751000   \               wined3d
ELF   7e751000-7e781000   Export          d3d9<elf>
  \-PE   7e760000-7e781000   \               d3d9
ELF   7e781000-7e813000   Deferred        winmm<elf>
  \-PE   7e790000-7e813000   \               winmm
ELF   7e813000-7e831000   Deferred        iphlpapi<elf>
  \-PE   7e820000-7e831000   \               iphlpapi
ELF   7e831000-7e892000   Deferred        rpcrt4<elf>
  \-PE   7e840000-7e892000   \               rpcrt4
ELF   7e892000-7e936000   Deferred        ole32<elf>
  \-PE   7e8a0000-7e936000   \               ole32
ELF   7e936000-7e96c000   Deferred        winspool<elf>
  \-PE   7e940000-7e96c000   \               winspool
ELF   7e96c000-7ea2b000   Deferred        comctl32<elf>
  \-PE   7e970000-7ea2b000   \               comctl32
ELF   7ea2b000-7ea84000   Deferred        shlwapi<elf>
  \-PE   7ea40000-7ea84000   \               shlwapi
ELF   7ea84000-7eb93000   Deferred        shell32<elf>
  \-PE   7ea90000-7eb93000   \               shell32
ELF   7eb93000-7ec3e000   Deferred        comdlg32<elf>
  \-PE   7eba0000-7ec3e000   \               comdlg32
ELF   7ec3e000-7ec90000   Deferred        advapi32<elf>
  \-PE   7ec50000-7ec90000   \               advapi32
ELF   7ec90000-7ed2b000   Deferred        gdi32<elf>
  \-PE   7eca0000-7ed2b000   \               gdi32
ELF   7ed2b000-7ee72000   Deferred        user32<elf>
  \-PE   7ed50000-7ee72000   \               user32
ELF   7ee72000-7ee8a000   Deferred        libnsl.so.1
ELF   7ee8a000-7ee93000   Deferred        libnss_compat.so.2
ELF   7ee94000-7eea7000   Deferred        libresolv.so.2
ELF   7efc7000-7efec000   Deferred        libm.so.6
ELF   f7c50000-f7c5b000   Deferred        libnss_files.so.2
ELF   f7c5c000-f7c60000   Deferred        libdl.so.2
ELF   f7c60000-f7daf000   Deferred        libc.so.6
ELF   f7db0000-f7dc8000   Deferred        libpthread.so.0
ELF   f7dc8000-f7dd2000   Deferred        libnss_nis.so.2
ELF   f7ddc000-f7f12000   Deferred        libwine.so.1
ELF   f7f14000-f7f33000   Deferred        ld-linux.so.2
Threads:
process  tid      prio (all id:s are in hex)
0000000c
   0000001c    0
   00000019    0
   00000013    0
   00000012    0
   0000000e    0
   0000000d    0
0000000f
   00000029    0
   00000028    0
   00000027    0
   00000026    0
   00000025    0
   00000024    0
   00000023    0
   00000022    0
   00000021    0
   00000020    0
   0000001f    0
   0000001e    0
   0000001a    0
   00000015    0
   00000014    0
   00000011    0
   00000010    0
00000016
   0000001d    0
   0000001b    0
   00000018    0
   00000017    0
0000002a (D) C:\Program Files\Enlight\Zoo Empire\ze.exe
   00000033   15
   00000030   15
   0000002e    0
   0000002b    0 <==
0000002c
   0000002d    0
Backtrace:
=>1 0x7c0be138 (0x0033e494)
  2 0x7e68174c ActivateContext+0x4fc() in wined3d (0x0033e514)
  3 0x7e6b626b drawPrimitive+0x17b() in wined3d (0x0033e824)
  4 0x7e68dfcb in wined3d (+0x2dfcb) (0x0033e894)
  5 0x7e767c5e in d3d9 (+0x7c5e) (0x0033e8c4)
  6 0x0061dcfb in ze (+0x21dcfb) (0x0033e8ec)
  7 0x005f682d in ze (+0x1f682d) (0x0033f5ac)
  8 0x0060cce5 in ze (+0x20cce5) (0x0033f604)
  9 0x0060aa14 in ze (+0x20aa14) (0x0033f6d4)
  10 0x0062ad6f in ze (+0x22ad6f) (0x0033f738)
  11 0x00641dd5 in ze (+0x241dd5) (0x0033f744)
  12 0x006dc0ea in ze (+0x2dc0ea) (0x0033fddc)
  13 0x00429efb in ze (+0x29efb) (0x0033fdec)
  14 0x00429000 in ze (+0x29000) (0x0033fe64)
  15 0x0044fd27 in ze (+0x4fd27) (0x0033fe70)
  16 0x00548a8f in ze (+0x148a8f) (0x0033fe7c)
  17 0x0088eea6 in ze (+0x48eea6) (0x0033ff08)
  18 0x7b8776d7 in kernel32 (+0x576d7) (0x0033ffe8)


Notice the crash is in exactly the same place as the one in GTA:SA. The open source ATI drivers work, but they are too slow to run anything :(


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