Make sure that Visual Studio works before 1.2 release

fernandocarvalho · Post by **fernandocarvalho** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:47 am

I was thinking that should be a good idea to make sure that at least Visual Studio 2008 is properly working in wine, before 1.2 release.
In this way, we could test specific functions in wine, by creating simple test applications to test if the system calls are working well.
I think that Visual Studio is a key application to test wine compatibility with windows, and it is an application that can be easily and freely downloaded from Microsoft's web site, by anyone.

John Drescher · Post by **John Drescher** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:54 am

I was thinking that should be a good idea to make sure that at least Visual Studio 2008 is properly working in wine, before 1.2 release.
In this way, we could test specific functions in wine, by creating simple test applications to test if the system calls are working well.
I think that Visual Studio is a key application to test wine compatibility with windows, and it is an application that can be easily and freely downloaded from Microsoft's web site, by anyone.

I believe at this point they are doing regressions only.

John

James McKenzie · Post by **James McKenzie** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:00 pm

fernandocarvalho wrote:

I was thinking that should be a good idea to make sure that at least Visual Studio 2008 is properly working in wine, before 1.2 release.
In this way, we could test specific functions in wine, by creating simple test applications to test if the system calls are working well.
I think that Visual Studio is a key application to test wine compatibility with windows, and it is an application that can be easily and freely downloaded from Microsoft's web site, by anyone.

Nice goal, but now is way too late.

This will have to go onto the slate of items for Wine 1.4.

We are only working on regressions and minor, very minor, code changes.

James McKenzie

fernandocarvalho · Post by **fernandocarvalho** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:21 am

Then, for the next release of wine, we could make sure that every new wine release, is capable of running Visual Studio.
So we can maintain a certain compliance with key features of windows.
If Visual Studio starts working in a good shape, we can be sure that many applications will also work, because a great portion of them are build using Visual Studio.

John Drescher · Post by **John Drescher** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:27 am

Then, for the next release of wine, we could make sure that every new wine release, is capable of running Visual Studio.

Visual Studio 2005 trial works mostly under current wine when
installed via winetricks.

John

James Mckenzie · Post by **James Mckenzie** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:48 pm

fernandocarvalho <[email protected]> wrote:

Then, for the next release of wine, we could make sure that every new wine release, is
capable of running Visual Studio.

Give us a real good compelling reason why this should be so. We are busy enough with trying to make 3,000 games and office applictions run (or more.) There are things in VS that will never work with Wine and that's just fine. We are trying to get MingWin to work and Cygwin to work as well. This will allow for building of Windows executibles from Linux/UNIX and to run them in Windows. That would be considered a massive step forward.

So we can maintain a certain compliance with key features of windows.

That's why we concentrate on applications over a broad spectrum.

If Visual Studio starts working in a good shape, we can be sure that many applications
will also work, because a great portion of them are build using Visual Studio.

It won't and never will. Applications use .NET and other 'features' of Windows as well. The goal should be:

1. Get legacy applications to work in Wine as they do in Windows.
2. Get current applications to work in Wine as they do in Windows.
3. Get cygwin/mingwin to build Windows applications in UNIX/Linux.
4. Get Visual Studio to work in Wine.

The first is mainly done. The second is where a lot of the messages in this forum come from. The third is a purely developer issue. The fourth may or may not happen as time goes along. Remember, we are following the Microsoft path and they have been known to throw a wrench into the works on a regular basis. And yes, I've been at this since the introduction of Windows95 to get Win32s applications to run on OS/2 (Project Odinn...)

James McKenzie

fernandocarvalho · Post by **fernandocarvalho** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:26 pm

My idea is to get some set of tests for the new system calls that are implemented in wine.
For example, if some wine developer implement a DX10 function, then I 'm going to implement an application to test if that function really works like in windows.
If not, than we are able to tell which is the problem and help the developement.
But I think that the best way to do this is by using microsoft compiler, so we can quickly, see if the applications will behave like in windows.

JeZ-l-Lee · Post by **JeZ-l-Lee** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:26 pm

Hi,

I you want Visual Studio to work, don't look towards Wine to do it.
Grab a free copy of VirtualBox and install a Windows to it.

Just my two cents.

Jesse

On 07/07/2010 02:47 PM, James Mckenzie wrote:

fernandocarvalho<[email protected]> wrote:
Then, for the next release of wine, we could make sure that every new wine release, is
capable of running Visual Studio.
Give us a real good compelling reason why this should be so. We are busy enough with trying to make 3,000 games and office applictions run (or more.) There are things in VS that will never work with Wine and that's just fine. We are trying to get MingWin to work and Cygwin to work as well. This will allow for building of Windows executibles from Linux/UNIX and to run them in Windows. That would be considered a massive step forward.

So we can maintain a certain compliance with key features of windows.
That's why we concentrate on applications over a broad spectrum.

If Visual Studio starts working in a good shape, we can be sure that many applications
will also work, because a great portion of them are build using Visual Studio.
It won't and never will. Applications use .NET and other 'features' of Windows as well. The goal should be:

1. Get legacy applications to work in Wine as they do in Windows.
2. Get current applications to work in Wine as they do in Windows.
3. Get cygwin/mingwin to build Windows applications in UNIX/Linux.
4. Get Visual Studio to work in Wine.

The first is mainly done. The second is where a lot of the messages in this forum come from. The third is a purely developer issue. The fourth may or may not happen as time goes along. Remember, we are following the Microsoft path and they have been known to throw a wrench into the works on a regular basis. And yes, I've been at this since the introduction of Windows95 to get Win32s applications to run on OS/2 (Project Odinn...)

James McKenzie

fernandocarvalho · Post by **fernandocarvalho** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:56 am

It is not that the point.
What I was thinking is in a way to better test Wine against Windows, from inside Wine.
If Visual Studio, were really working, than we could make scripts, to execute Wine tests, with Visual Studio tools.
This could help finding system calls that are not complying to Windows.
I don't need Visual Studio, because I don't waste my time developing for windows.
My real go with wine is to help people get rid of Microsoft monopoly.

James McKenzie · Post by **James McKenzie** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:50 pm

Jesse Palser wrote:

On 07/07/2010 02:47 PM, James Mckenzie wrote:
fernandocarvalho<[email protected]> wrote:
Then, for the next release of wine, we could make sure that every
new wine release, is
capable of running Visual Studio.
Give us a real good compelling reason why this should be so. We are
busy enough with trying to make 3,000 games and office applictions
run (or more.) There are things in VS that will never work with Wine
and that's just fine. We are trying to get MingWin to work and
Cygwin to work as well. This will allow for building of Windows
executibles from Linux/UNIX and to run them in Windows. That would
be considered a massive step forward.

So we can maintain a certain compliance with key features of windows.
That's why we concentrate on applications over a broad spectrum.

If Visual Studio starts working in a good shape, we can be sure that
many applications
will also work, because a great portion of them are build using
Visual Studio.
It won't and never will. Applications use .NET and other 'features'
of Windows as well. The goal should be:

1. Get legacy applications to work in Wine as they do in Windows.
2. Get current applications to work in Wine as they do in Windows.
3. Get cygwin/mingwin to build Windows applications in UNIX/Linux.
4. Get Visual Studio to work in Wine.

The first is mainly done. The second is where a lot of the messages
in this forum come from. The third is a purely developer issue. The
fourth may or may not happen as time goes along. Remember, we are
following the Microsoft path and they have been known to throw a
wrench into the works on a regular basis. And yes, I've been at this
since the introduction of Windows95 to get Win32s applications to run
on OS/2 (Project Odinn...)

James McKenzie

Hi,

I you want Visual Studio to work, don't look towards Wine to do it.
Grab a free copy of VirtualBox and install a Windows to it.

Just my two cents.

Jesse

That's because you are running Windows, not an API. We are working on
getting VS to work, but that takes time. Right now VS2005Trial does
work with Wine, but in a limited fashion.

James McKenzie

James McKenzie · Post by **James McKenzie** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:49 pm

fernandocarvalho wrote:

It is not that the point.
What I was thinking is in a way to better test Wine against Windows, from inside Wine.
If Visual Studio, were really working, than we could make scripts, to execute Wine tests, with Visual Studio tools.
This could help finding system calls that are not complying to Windows.
I don't need Visual Studio, because I don't waste my time developing for windows.
My real go with wine is to help people get rid of Microsoft monopoly.

Your last statement makes no sense in this case. We need to have an
external method of verification. Remember, if we follow the jailer, we
will end up in jail eventually. If we follow Microsoft, we are bound to
end up frustrated. I'm not certain if there is an opensource project
that will create .NET programs (nor do I care that folks seem to want to
support this brokenness but that is their deal) but there should be. I
think that is part of the purpose of the Mono project.

James McKenzie

Post by **DanKegel** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:53 pm

James - nearly all windows games are compiled by Visual C++

Anyway, the original poster should have a look at
http://wiki.winehq.org/UnitTestSuites
to see that we agree with him

And he should focus on unmanaged C++ test apps for now.

James McKenzie · Post by **James McKenzie** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:08 pm

DanKegel wrote:

James - nearly all windows games are compiled by Visual C++

Anyway, the original poster should have a look at
http://wiki.winehq.org/UnitTestSuites
to see that we agree with him
And he should focus on unmanaged C++ test apps for now.

Thank you, Dan, for the URL.

However, I work with two applications that may or may not be build with
Visual Studio (they both use Visual Basic calls and one actually appears
to be built on Windows98SE).

These are fine. Getting VS???? to work with Wine is a great goal.
Maybe we will pickup more applications along the way.

In the meantime, I have to get back to my test case that just blew up in
my face (Job 3284 is a great example and UNICODE calls seem to not be
working now.)

James McKenzie

ahso · Post by **ahso** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:23 am

Such appears perverted to me....why not use Eclipse and GCC. Those are not only superior but also cross platform.

Creating nowadays apps with VS, means losing market share. Mac has a way to large user base to ignore, like Win users do with Linux. Also Mac and Linux compilations are nearly the same.

Gert van den Berg · Post by **Gert van den Berg** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:03 am

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 08:23, ahso <[email protected]> wrote:

Such appears perverted to me....why not use Eclipse and GCC. Those are not only superior but also cross platform.

Creating nowadays apps with VS, means losing market share. Mac has a way to large user base to ignore, like Win users do with Linux. Also Mac and Linux compilations are nearly the same.

The code have a much larger effect than the compiler... (If you write
ANSI C / C++ it should compile anywhere... Using platform specific
libraries breaks portability, the specific library is not relevant
(compiling a program relying on POSIX libraries under Windows is not
that much different than compiling something dependant on MFC on a
Unix))

Changing the behaviour of 3rd party developers is probably a lost cause....

(.NET code is actually about as portable as Java, except that
Microsoft only supplies an environment for Windows and developers
ignore it and use OS specific functionality (such as Windows-only
DLLs). Its quite possible for a pure .NET 2.0 application to run fine
on Windows (x86, x64 and IA-64), Windows CE (if kept within limits of
compact .NET framework) and Linux / Solaris / OS X using Mono)

Gert