More and more poor clueless users getting to nowhere installing that stuff according to some howtos. Who are writing those? And why are they directing people to install it in the first place?
The only person I've found who created that howto everyone links to - Tom Wickline states EXPLICITLY THAT THIS IS FOR TESTING PURPOSES ONLY!!! AND NOT TO BE USED WITH ANY REAL LIFE APPLICATION!
Are there are somebody else who directs users to do that?
Oh and btw all topics regarding problems after/during installing native DirectX on Wine will be deleted.
Who asking users to install native DirectX?
Who asking users to install native DirectX?
On 4/26/08, chourmovs <[email protected]> wrote:
Either way, if a user is taking what someone says is for
testing/experimental purposes only, finds it doesn't work, and expects
support for it, they obviously are mistaken and will not receive that
support. RTFM (granted, out of date...RTFF instead?)
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vitamin wrote:stuff according to some howtos. Who are writing those? And why are theyMore and more poor clueless users getting to nowhere installing that
directing people to install it in the first place?Tom Wickline states EXPLICITLY THAT THIS IS FOR TESTING PURPOSES ONLY!!! ANDThe only person I've found who created that howto everyone links to -
NOT TO BE USED WITH ANY REAL LIFE APPLICATION!DirectX on Wine will be deleted.Are there are somebody else who directs users to do that?
Oh and btw all topics regarding problems after/during installing native
???
Not sure to understand...
Aim of nowadays 1.0 development is web and office windows app that comes
against lambda user first aim witch is to make his windows game working,
cause sometime it can and most of the case it's not very far
Script and frontend owner listen better to users community than wine's dev
team
I don'tjudge that cause wine and me is not a long history but i don't
really understand your topic
beta or alpha is always better than nothing
Either way, if a user is taking what someone says is for
testing/experimental purposes only, finds it doesn't work, and expects
support for it, they obviously are mistaken and will not receive that
support. RTFM (granted, out of date...RTFF instead?)
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Paul Johnson
Who asking users to install native DirectX?
On Saturday 26 April 2008 03:05:04 am chourmovs wrote:
implementation.
--
Paul Johnson
[email protected]
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DX9 is supported by wine already, you don't need to install Microsoft'sOk, according to vitamin's reaction, i understood that trying directx 9
with wine was evil and a great great danger
For direct9 no-support on this forum...mmm... it's yours afterall
implementation.
--
Paul Johnson
[email protected]
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recent games require native dll that are not yet implemented.... but you know that i suppose
Maybe my poor english prevent me to understand what is your goal here, and why you erase my 2 last posts. In all the case it comes against appdb phylosophy witch is to demonstrate what wine can do, specially in recent game emulation
Maybe my poor english prevent me to understand what is your goal here, and why you erase my 2 last posts. In all the case it comes against appdb phylosophy witch is to demonstrate what wine can do, specially in recent game emulation
Both of your posts had nothing to do with the topic. As well as this one. Stay on topic or your posts will be removed in the future.chourmovs wrote:recent games require native dll that are not yet implemented.... but you know that i suppose
Maybe my poor english prevent me to understand what is your goal here, and why you erase my 2 last posts. In all the case it comes against appdb phylosophy witch is to demonstrate what wine can do, specially in recent game emulation
It seems you do not want to understand that installing native DirectX on Wine is not a viable option! It breaks Wine the same way winetools did several years ago.
-
James McKenzie
Who asking users to install native DirectX?
chourmovs wrote:
report and we also update or create an Applications Database entry that
tells the developers there is a problem. Without this input, we the
Users will never see any improvements in the code base. There is a team
of developers trying very hard to implement all of the functions of
DirectX version 9. If we (the Users) decide that installation of
DirectX 9, which is not supported in any fashion, will fix the problem,
this is unacceptable. Please understand that you, on your own, can
install the entire DirectX package, but be advised this will not work
and may actually make your Wine installation unusable requiring a
complete re-installation of it (this is not a trival task and may force
you to re-install any and all Windows applications.) Here is what I
think should happen:
1. The suggestion to install DirectX 9 should be removed from the
Applications Database, if it has not been already.
2. We (the Users) need to file appropriate bug reports, IF THEY DO NOT
ALREADY EXIST. If a bug report exists, please create an appropriate
login on Bugzilla and add your name to the CC: area so you will be
advised of the status of the bug and if any fixes need to be
reviewed/tested.
3. We need to constantly update the Applications Database, on a release
by release basis, of any applications we are using or attempting to use
with Wine. Note that no application can be rated Platinum if you have
to use a native dll to get the program to function properly.
It is functionally correct to use a native dll from a Windows XP
installation, provided you have a licensed copy of Windows XP (I do and
it is licensed forever) and you do not use Wine and WindowsXP at the
same time. This IS NOT true for .dlls provided with applications as the
EULA may be different. This is definitely not true for some of the
products produced by Microsoft.
The bottom line: Do not install DirectX 9 onto Wine and then expect the
developers to fix any problems you encounter. This is what we call "Not
Supported". The same is true for what I am doing, however the program
and Wine continue to function properly and I am not happy as many fixes
are needed to get the program to work, properly, with all Wine builtin
.dll files. However, I am also willing to work to get all functionality
of the program to work (I do a little development on the side.)
James McKenzie
Here is how we handle this situation: We (that is the Users) file a bugrecent games require native dll that are not yet implemented.... but you know that i suppose
report and we also update or create an Applications Database entry that
tells the developers there is a problem. Without this input, we the
Users will never see any improvements in the code base. There is a team
of developers trying very hard to implement all of the functions of
DirectX version 9. If we (the Users) decide that installation of
DirectX 9, which is not supported in any fashion, will fix the problem,
this is unacceptable. Please understand that you, on your own, can
install the entire DirectX package, but be advised this will not work
and may actually make your Wine installation unusable requiring a
complete re-installation of it (this is not a trival task and may force
you to re-install any and all Windows applications.) Here is what I
think should happen:
1. The suggestion to install DirectX 9 should be removed from the
Applications Database, if it has not been already.
2. We (the Users) need to file appropriate bug reports, IF THEY DO NOT
ALREADY EXIST. If a bug report exists, please create an appropriate
login on Bugzilla and add your name to the CC: area so you will be
advised of the status of the bug and if any fixes need to be
reviewed/tested.
3. We need to constantly update the Applications Database, on a release
by release basis, of any applications we are using or attempting to use
with Wine. Note that no application can be rated Platinum if you have
to use a native dll to get the program to function properly.
It is functionally correct to use a native dll from a Windows XP
installation, provided you have a licensed copy of Windows XP (I do and
it is licensed forever) and you do not use Wine and WindowsXP at the
same time. This IS NOT true for .dlls provided with applications as the
EULA may be different. This is definitely not true for some of the
products produced by Microsoft.
The bottom line: Do not install DirectX 9 onto Wine and then expect the
developers to fix any problems you encounter. This is what we call "Not
Supported". The same is true for what I am doing, however the program
and Wine continue to function properly and I am not happy as many fixes
are needed to get the program to work, properly, with all Wine builtin
.dll files. However, I am also willing to work to get all functionality
of the program to work (I do a little development on the side.)
James McKenzie
Who asking users to install native DirectX?
Sorry, I had sent it to James and not to the WINE list 
-----
One thing is to have DirectX installed and another thing is to copy a
DLL (in the case of NFSMW that you need dxinput_8 and d3dx9_30.dll or
something).
If users are using the native DLLs is because the builtin ones don't
work. If you want users to stop using WHAT WORKS, then do something
about the builtin functionality. I understand that hard work has been
given to DX lately, it is very noticeable in WoW, and the concern of
adding the shader emulation for GeForce4 and ATI-something cards.
When I need an app/game to work I'll do ANYTHING possible to make it
work. I don't care if "it isn't the right way". It works? yes, and
that's what Windows users expect/do. Talk about the Halo 2 XP hack. Is
it right? no. It is intended to work like that? no. It works? yes,
then users are happy. M$ won't do anything against users playing Halo
2 on XP, I think you can make a difference and work very, very hard on
DX so installing DX wouldn't be neccessary.
I say leave the FAQ/AppDb DX entry online, but state that using the
libraries is far more better than installing the whole DX package.
Until WINE gets full DX support.
On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 6:56 PM, James McKenzie
<[email protected]> wrote:
-----
One thing is to have DirectX installed and another thing is to copy a
DLL (in the case of NFSMW that you need dxinput_8 and d3dx9_30.dll or
something).
If users are using the native DLLs is because the builtin ones don't
work. If you want users to stop using WHAT WORKS, then do something
about the builtin functionality. I understand that hard work has been
given to DX lately, it is very noticeable in WoW, and the concern of
adding the shader emulation for GeForce4 and ATI-something cards.
When I need an app/game to work I'll do ANYTHING possible to make it
work. I don't care if "it isn't the right way". It works? yes, and
that's what Windows users expect/do. Talk about the Halo 2 XP hack. Is
it right? no. It is intended to work like that? no. It works? yes,
then users are happy. M$ won't do anything against users playing Halo
2 on XP, I think you can make a difference and work very, very hard on
DX so installing DX wouldn't be neccessary.
I say leave the FAQ/AppDb DX entry online, but state that using the
libraries is far more better than installing the whole DX package.
Until WINE gets full DX support.
On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 6:56 PM, James McKenzie
<[email protected]> wrote:
chourmovs wrote:
know that i supposerecent games require native dll that are not yet implemented.... but you
Here is how we handle this situation: We (that is the Users) file a bug
report and we also update or create an Applications Database entry that
tells the developers there is a problem. Without this input, we the Users
will never see any improvements in the code base. There is a team of
developers trying very hard to implement all of the functions of DirectX
version 9. If we (the Users) decide that installation of DirectX 9, which
is not supported in any fashion, will fix the problem, this is unacceptable.
Please understand that you, on your own, can install the entire DirectX
package, but be advised this will not work and may actually make your Wine
installation unusable requiring a complete re-installation of it (this is
not a trival task and may force you to re-install any and all Windows
applications.) Here is what I think should happen:
1. The suggestion to install DirectX 9 should be removed from the
Applications Database, if it has not been already.
2. We (the Users) need to file appropriate bug reports, IF THEY DO NOT
ALREADY EXIST. If a bug report exists, please create an appropriate login
on Bugzilla and add your name to the CC: area so you will be advised of the
status of the bug and if any fixes need to be reviewed/tested.
3. We need to constantly update the Applications Database, on a release by
release basis, of any applications we are using or attempting to use with
Wine. Note that no application can be rated Platinum if you have to use a
native dll to get the program to function properly.
It is functionally correct to use a native dll from a Windows XP
installation, provided you have a licensed copy of Windows XP (I do and it
is licensed forever) and you do not use Wine and WindowsXP at the same time.
This IS NOT true for .dlls provided with applications as the EULA may be
different. This is definitely not true for some of the products produced by
Microsoft.
The bottom line: Do not install DirectX 9 onto Wine and then expect the
developers to fix any problems you encounter. This is what we call "Not
Supported". The same is true for what I am doing, however the program and
Wine continue to function properly and I am not happy as many fixes are
needed to get the program to work, properly, with all Wine builtin .dll
files. However, I am also willing to work to get all functionality of the
program to work (I do a little development on the side.)
James McKenzie
Ok i can understand your goal now!!
We can use native dll but we don't have to report result in appdb, bugzilla or in this forum cause it make confusion for developper who try to make dx9 capabilities included
I have to reformulate, i'm sorry my brain is slow this time
Thank you for your deeper explanations
...I have to say that a big job of cleaning is waiting appdb and bugzilla supervisors
We can use native dll but we don't have to report result in appdb, bugzilla or in this forum cause it make confusion for developper who try to make dx9 capabilities included
I have to reformulate, i'm sorry my brain is slow this time
Thank you for your deeper explanations
...I have to say that a big job of cleaning is waiting appdb and bugzilla supervisors
for some applications (i.e. Trackmania Nations: Forever) you've to install directX9 to bring it to work (if you don't do that, you get an error that the game isn't able to call a function in one of the directX dlls)
It works for me and everybody else playing TMN: Forever
I don't know whats the matter?
All my other games (CS:S) still working...I thought for exactly THAT is the wineprefix?!
Maybe someone could explain me whats the matter for this angry thread
yeah, it's not a *fine* solution...but it works...so, for normal, this is a working workaround...and the only thing that is really interesting for a user is, that the application works...how the application works is...nonrelevant.
It works for me and everybody else playing TMN: Forever
I don't know whats the matter?
All my other games (CS:S) still working...I thought for exactly THAT is the wineprefix?!
Maybe someone could explain me whats the matter for this angry thread
yeah, it's not a *fine* solution...but it works...so, for normal, this is a working workaround...and the only thing that is really interesting for a user is, that the application works...how the application works is...nonrelevant.
Last edited by Detructor on Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
but I don't have a Windows (erhm...yes I have one, but I have to install it...and for that I've to format my disk...so you see, that way is longer)
And the effect is the same.
The DLL is where it should be.
* ah, know I see your problem: all the other dlls are the problem for you, right?
hmm...okay, you are right
And the effect is the same.
The DLL is where it should be.
* ah, know I see your problem: all the other dlls are the problem for you, right?
hmm...okay, you are right
Destructor, read carrefully all this thread and you'll probably understand what's problem
Use of recent dll put confusion in bug reporting since they are not took in consideration by developper, that's very simple... it make official directx9 implementation slower cause part of development is made upon identified bug correction
Vitamin, please don't be so peremptory and martial and take the time to explain what is not so evident
Use of recent dll put confusion in bug reporting since they are not took in consideration by developper, that's very simple... it make official directx9 implementation slower cause part of development is made upon identified bug correction
Vitamin, please don't be so peremptory and martial and take the time to explain what is not so evident
-
Dan Kegel
Who asking users to install native DirectX?
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Paul Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
Damn, now I'm agreeing with Paul!On Sunday 27 April 2008 08:57:46 am vitamin wrote:Tone it down, Vitamin...WRONG! You copy that dll from windows. AND THAT DLL ONLY!!!
I'm not going to waste time explaining why jumping off the roof from 100-story building is a bad thing. If people so dumb that they don't get that themselves, no explanation will help them. Nor will they bother reading that explanation.chourmovs wrote:Destructor, read carrefully all this thread and you'll probably understand what's problem
Use of recent dll put confusion in bug reporting since they are not took in consideration by developper, that's very simple... it make official directx9 implementation slower cause part of development is made upon identified bug correction
Vitamin, please don't be so peremptory and martial and take the time to explain what is not so evident
-
Dan Kegel
Who asking users to install native DirectX?
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 11:16 AM, vitamin <[email protected]> wrote:
Ah, but will you stop being so peremptory and martial?I'm not going to waste time explaining why jumping off the roof from 100-story building is a bad thing. If people so dumb that they don't get that themselves, no explanation will help them. Nor will they bother reading that explanation.Vitamin, please don't be so peremptory and martial and take the time to explain what is not so evident [Rolling Eyes] [Wink]
Re: Who asking users to install native DirectX?
Dan Kegel wrote:Ah, but will you stop being so peremptory and martial?
-
David Shaw
Who asking users to install native DirectX?
vitamin wrote:
and trying to install DirectX under Wine.
I can work out for myself, from first principles, that jumping off a
100-storey building may not be a good idea. However, without being
educated as to how Wine works and how DirectX works and how they do (or
do not) work together, no amount of extrapolation from existing
knowledge is going to tell my why trying to install DirectX under Wine
is a bad idea.
Please do not assume that everyone knows and understands what you do and
that those who don't are dumb, Vitamin. *I* don't understand why trying
to install DirectX under Wine is a bad idea (not that I've ever wanted
to do so) and, with an IQ of 148, I can hardly be accused of being
dumb. Thank you.
David Shaw
There is a subtle difference between jumping off a 100-storey buildingchourmovs wrote:
I'm not going to waste time explaining why jumping off the roof from 100-story building is a bad thing. If people so dumb that they don't get that themselves, no explanation will help them. Nor will they bother reading that explanation.Destructor, read carrefully all this thread and you'll probably understand what's problem
Use of recent dll put confusion in bug reporting since they are not took in consideration by developper, that's very simple... it make official directx9 implementation slower cause part of development is made upon identified bug correction
Vitamin, please don't be so peremptory and martial and take the time to explain what is not so evident [Rolling Eyes] [Wink]
and trying to install DirectX under Wine.
I can work out for myself, from first principles, that jumping off a
100-storey building may not be a good idea. However, without being
educated as to how Wine works and how DirectX works and how they do (or
do not) work together, no amount of extrapolation from existing
knowledge is going to tell my why trying to install DirectX under Wine
is a bad idea.
Please do not assume that everyone knows and understands what you do and
that those who don't are dumb, Vitamin. *I* don't understand why trying
to install DirectX under Wine is a bad idea (not that I've ever wanted
to do so) and, with an IQ of 148, I can hardly be accused of being
dumb. Thank you.
David Shaw
David there's two different thing on this thread, read carefully
1) Vitamin try to tell us , with his own words, that installing directx9 is not a good way to improve wine's code (i resume), and that's why it's not supported in this forum. We can presume his knowledge and his investsment in this project allow him to say that
2) Vitamin, despite of his rank of moderator on this general help forum, don't want to waste his time explaining wine's stuff to dumby (but overQIfied ) person like us... and THAT is difficult to accept for me
1) Vitamin try to tell us , with his own words
, that installing directx9 is not a good way to improve wine's code (i resume), and that's why it's not supported in this forum. We can presume his knowledge and his investsment in this project allow him to say that2) Vitamin, despite of his rank of moderator on this general help forum, don't want to waste his time explaining wine's stuff to dumby (but overQIfied
) person like us... and THAT is difficult to accept for meRe: Who asking users to install native DirectX?
With such a high IQ you sure should know how to use google.David Shaw wrote:Please do not assume that everyone knows and understands what you do and
that those who don't are dumb, Vitamin. *I* don't understand why trying
to install DirectX under Wine is a bad idea (not that I've ever wanted
to do so) and, with an IQ of 148, I can hardly be accused of being
dumb. Thank you.
David Shaw
Re: Who asking users to install native DirectX?
Because there is no end to people stupidity. And play along with that is not something I personally want to do. Nor do I want to see army of idiots making suggestions to another army of idiots. And all at the end heading nowhere. If the so want to do that - they can do that somewhere else.Dan Kegel wrote:On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 11:16 AM, vitamin <[email protected]> wrote:Ah, but will you stop being so peremptory and martial?I'm not going to waste time explaining why jumping off the roof from 100-story building is a bad thing. If people so dumb that they don't get that themselves, no explanation will help them. Nor will they bother reading that explanation.Vitamin, please don't be so peremptory and martial and take the time to explain what is not so evident [Rolling Eyes] [Wink]
-
Jim Hall
Who asking users to install native DirectX?
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 2:34 PM, vitamin <[email protected]> wrote:
list. Are you guys done poking at each other?
Jim
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Gee, the last time I saw a thread like this was on a <certain distro> userDan Kegel wrote:wrote:On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 11:16 AM, vitamin <[email protected]>to explain what is not so evident [Rolling Eyes] [Wink]100-story building is a bad thing. If people so dumb that they don't getI'm not going to waste time explaining why jumping off the roof from
that themselves, no explanation will help them. Nor will they bother reading
that explanation.Because there is no end to people stupidity. And play along with that isAh, but will you stop being so peremptory and martial?
not something I personally want to do. Nor do I want to see army of idiots
making suggestions to another army of idiots. And all at the end heading
nowhere. If the so want to do that - they can do that somewhere else.
list. Are you guys done poking at each other?
Jim
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David Shaw
Who asking users to install native DirectX?
vitamin wrote:
level of knowledge of Wine - as, indeed, you are not at my level of
knowledge in some field or other (not knowing your background, I cannot
say what that field may be, but I can guarantee that there is one) - and
simply to accuse people of being dumb because of that is somewhat
offensive. Should you ever need my help in that field - or anyone
else's help in a field in which their knowledge and experience is
superior to yours - would you be happy with my calling you dumb simply
because you come to me for assistance and education rather than going to
Google? I suspect you would not tolerate that kind of treatment from me
and I would therefore ask that you not expect us to tolerate it from
you. Thank you.
David Shaw
I do - and I do. However, my point was that not everyone is at yourDavid Shaw wrote:
With such a high IQ you sure should know how to use google.Please do not assume that everyone knows and understands what you do and
that those who don't are dumb, Vitamin. *I* don't understand why trying
to install DirectX under Wine is a bad idea (not that I've ever wanted
to do so) and, with an IQ of 148, I can hardly be accused of being
dumb. Thank you.
David Shaw
level of knowledge of Wine - as, indeed, you are not at my level of
knowledge in some field or other (not knowing your background, I cannot
say what that field may be, but I can guarantee that there is one) - and
simply to accuse people of being dumb because of that is somewhat
offensive. Should you ever need my help in that field - or anyone
else's help in a field in which their knowledge and experience is
superior to yours - would you be happy with my calling you dumb simply
because you come to me for assistance and education rather than going to
Google? I suspect you would not tolerate that kind of treatment from me
and I would therefore ask that you not expect us to tolerate it from
you. Thank you.
David Shaw
