WINE without Vulkan?

Questions about Wine on Linux
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Ruler2112
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WINE without Vulkan?

Post by Ruler2112 »

I have an older 17" laptop with an integrated Radeon HD 8400 / R3 Series GPU, quad-core AMD CPU, & 16 gigs of RAM. I've played Oblivion for literally hundreds of hours on it in the past, using PlayOnLinux to manage WINE's virtual drives under Ubuntu 16.04 - it ran perfectly fine, albeit with semi-frequent crashing. (I've read that this is considered normal for the game & never knew if it was related to running it through WINE or due to the game itself. The graphics settings weren't anywhere near the highest & I only had a few mods installed, but I was perfectly OK with that.

About a year ago, I had a catastrophic drive failure. I got a new drive for my system and installed Ubuntu 22.04 on it - yeah, it took me close to a week to get everything working, but looking on the bright side, it's a good excuse to upgrade, right? :lol: Last week, I decided that I wanted to delve back into the world of Oblivion - stress at work & at home are getting to be too much and I need to escape. I read on UESP that a program called Lutris is the way to go now & that virtually all crashing is gone when running the game with it, so I installed Lutris. It installed very quickly, not requiring much of anything in the way of additional packages. It updated and installed a bunch of stuff on it's own when I first started it (without requiring root, so I presume locally) and installed WINE on it's own. Unfortunately, Lutris refused to acknowledge that WINE was installed, even though Lutris itself installed it and I could see the WINE files in ~/.local/share/lutris/runners/wine/ . I hopped on the Lutris discord and they told me that the system level WINE needed to be installed through apt in order to work, regardless of the fact that another version of WINE was already installed, so I installed WINE through apt.

This is where things got hairy. When installing WINE through apt, it automatically drew in vulkan drivers - I'd never heard of these before & didn't pay any attention. Unfortunately, I learned later that the GPU in my laptop is not supported by vulkan & I started getting all kinds of errors; literally half or more of the programs on my system refused to start, complaining "did not find extension DRI_Mesa version 1" when running through a terminal. The guys on the Lutris discord quit responding to me about this time. :roll: :( Removing the vulkan packages was not as easy as it sounds - seems like the dependency lists for a whole slew of packages had been updated to require vulkan, even though it hasn't been required by anything in the year or so since installing Ubuntu 22.04. Finally, after much time spent forcibly removing packages, I was able to get stuff mostly working, albeit *MUCH* more slowly than before. (Libreoffice takes 2 minutes to load now when it took about 3 seconds before vulkan infested my system. Watching videos online results in about 8-10 fps.) So far, I've been unable to figure out how to fix it (remove vulkan & restore the original GPU drivers) and apt complains that I need to 'apt --fix-broken install' which would result in vulkan being installed again, even after troubleshooting with guys I know who are experts when it comes to Linux. Frankly, I have just about given up on Ubuntu's BS - this is far from the first time I've been bitten by apt-induced dependency hell, being unable to upgrade programs to fix packages because they're a year or two behind current, not being able to do what I want because the system thinks it knows better, etc. Arch has been recommended as a very good distro & I'm probably going to migrate to that.

Here's the kicker - I *cannot* lose the data currently on my drive, even for just a few days, as I work remote - so I've ordered another SSD, figuring I'd be able to swap drives as needed until I get the new Arch system configured enough to do everything I need it to in order to do my job. Needless to say, this whole experience has been beyond frustrating & has only added to the stress I was hoping to escape.

My questions are simple - can I install WINE *without* vulkan being brought in? If so, how? Given my description above, does anyone see how I could repair my Ubuntu install short of a complete wipe / reinstall? (Really not relishing the idea of reinstalling / reconfiguring everything I'm going to need for home & work again...)

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Side-note: I'm really hopeful that someone here will be able to help me. Lutris left behind a 'tweaked' version of WINE in my system's trash... after forcing enough vulkan packages away with dpkg -r --force-depends such that programs would again start, I played with this. It refused to install Oblivion with an illegal instruction error, but *was* able to install Morrowind just fine. It won't *play* Morrowind, but installed it. Without vulkan packages. :? (This is what gives me hope that WINE is runnable without vulkan, in addition to my running it like that before the drive crash.) Thinking it was due to the WINE being non-standard, I went to install Lutris again, figuring I'd let it install standard WINE locally, copy it out of where it put it, and then remove Lutris, only to find that system/apt WINE is now a dependency of the Lutris package, which of course wants to pull in the vulkan I'd spent so long trying to get rid of. Tried installing PlayOnLinux & it also insists on installing apt wine. Found openmw & installed it, but am almost afraid to try starting it given the abysmal graphics performance the system now has with literally everything.

I appreciate any help or advice.
TommyC
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Re: WINE without Vulkan?

Post by TommyC »

If you install wine through apt you're installing a pre-made package. Whoever built the package seems to have chosen to configure wine with

Code: Select all

--with-vulkan
You could either build wine yourself without vulkan support or perhaps even find a pre-built wine package for Ubuntu that's already built without vulkan support.
Ruler2112
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Re: WINE without Vulkan?

Post by Ruler2112 »

Thank you for the response Tommy. Building it myself sounds complicated. I've built other (much smaller) software in the past & have always run into problems with stuff you're just supposed to somehow have or know, plus always end up with several gigs of wasted space after because of all the compilers/libraries/etc that're needed to compile the software. I'd rather avoid this if possible, but will research more if I can't find a solution otherwise.

Installing a pre-built binary without vulkan sounds like the ideal solution. Any ideas as to where I could find a binary for Ubuntu 22.04 that doesn't have vulkan enabled, or even what to search for? Searching online turns up this thread (gee, thanks a lot google :lol: ) and discussions about how to *enable* vulkan... precious little about how to use wine without it. I did see that there's a winehq package available, but it doesn't specify if it requires vulkan or not.

Since my original post, I've gotten my graphics back to normal... :) For the benefit of others who may be in this predicament & find this thread, after removing every package with vulkan, kisak, and mesa that I could find (along with some stuff that had the same exact funky version as the vulkan/kisak packages), I found and installed an old DEB with amd graphics drivers. ('apt list --installed | grep <string>' is your friend.) Frankly, I don't even know where I got it from - was very late when I ran across it. No idea if it was the one that was installed with the system, but my graphics are back to normal. :) Plus, apt no longer complains about missing dependencies, so it must've changed back what vulkan overwrote in that regard. :mrgreen:
Ruler2112
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Re: WINE without Vulkan?

Post by Ruler2112 »

I followed the process of adding the WINE HQ repository, thinking that it may not have the vulkan drivers as dependencies. (It should tell me what it'd going to install & I can just say no to install if has vulkan in it...) The winehq-stable pacakage does not appear to want vulkan. :)

Why would the winehq-stable package have system / apt level wine of the same version as a dependency though??? (I've tried winehq-stable 9.0.0.0, 8.0.2, and 7.0.2, all with the same result.) Installing wine through apt *does* want to install the vulkan drivers. :(

I feel like I'm going in circles to install something I had working fine under an older version of the same OS when all I really want to do is lose myself in a fantasy world to escape life for a while... :cry:
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dimesio
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Re: WINE without Vulkan?

Post by dimesio »

Ruler2112 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 9:59 pm I followed the process of adding the WINE HQ repository, thinking that it may not have the vulkan
Why would the winehq-stable package have system / apt level wine of the same version as a dependency though??? (I've tried winehq-stable 9.0.0.0, 8.0.2, and 7.0.2, all with the same result.) Installing wine through apt *does* want to install the vulkan drivers. :(
The winehq- packages are merely compatibility symlinks that allow you to use our packages as the system default wine. They pull in the corresponding wine packages as dependencies.
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Re: WINE without Vulkan?

Post by Ruler2112 »

Surprising (to me) update - going to document what I found / did for the benefit of others in this situation who may find this thread:

What I was chasing was not the source of the problem, but a symptom. I was on a techie channel on twitch yesterday & thought that someone there might have some ideas. Seemed like most people were almost as frustrated with ubuntu's packaging system as myself, but I got a few different things to try. One of them hit the bullseye dead-center.

Apparently, when the AMD GPU drivers load, there are actually two that are installed. One is amdgpu and the other named radeon. I never knew this or frankly cared. lspci -k showed the driver being used as radeon. This was the problem. I've not worked out exactly how in my head yet, and I honestly do not know if I ever will given how little experience I have with this kind of thing, but according to an article on the Arch wiki that someone sent me, this is the issue. Below is a link to that page, but much of it doesn't apply to ubuntu, so here is what I did:

lspci -k confirmed that the radeon module was indeed the kernel driver in use. Looking at /sys/module/radeon/parameters/si_support & /sys/module/radeon/parameters/cik_support revealed that both were enabled (1) and so my GPU supported something called Southern Islands (si) & Sea Islands (cik). Then I created /etc/modprobe.d/amdgpu.conf with 'options amdgpu si_support=1' & 'options amdgpu cik_support=1' as the only lines in it. /etc/modprobe.d/radeon.conf got 'options radeon si_support=0' & 'options radeon cik_support=0' in it. A reboot showed that amdgpu took over as the kernel driver according to lspci -k (This completely broke my screen brightness setting, which is critical to me as my eyes are very light sensitive and bright lights trigger migraines. :( After poking around in /sys for a while, I found that '/sys/class/backlight/radeon_bl0/brightness' no longer existed - makes sense in hindsight given that the module wasn't the driver being used by the kernel anymore. Discovered that '/sys/class/backlight/amdgpu_bl0/brightness' did exist & echoing numbers to it has the exact same effect. Updated the script I have running at boot to change this & all was well.) Testing with online videos, playing video files, etc showed programs started normally & I got 30+ fps easily. (Which I'm perfectly OK with.) So far so good...

Next was to get rid of the radeon module - modprobe -r radeon unloaded it and testing again showed everything was still good. I added 'blacklist radeon' to /etc/modprobe.d/radeon.conf to prevent it from being loaded, but discovered while writing this that it was still being loaded. Added the same line to /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf , but honestly haven't rebooted again since to test. If it does, I'll just script modprobe -r radeon to get rid of it and set it to run on startup.

After all of this, I used apt install winehq-stable=9.0.0.0~jammy-1 wine-stable=9.0.0.0~jammy-1 wine-stable-i386=9.0.0.0~jammy-1 wine-stable-amd64=9.0.0.0~jammy-1 to install WINE. (The ubuntu repository only has something like version 6 in it - not surprising given that I'm still dealing with bugs in unrelated software that were fixed 6-8 years ago, but that ubuntu hasn't updated their repo for yet. :( ) Threw in my Oblivion disk, used wine to start the setup.exe file, and everything installed perfectly into ~/.wine :) :) :) :mrgreen:

I still can't actually play the game - WINE pops up a 'Failed to initialize renderer GetAdapterDesc() failed.' message when I start it. Haven't even begun researching what that means or how to fix it - really hope it's going to be far easier to solve than this has been. Regardless, what I found is a massive step in the right direction and WINE is at least installed & functioning on my laptop. :) Wanted to be sure to share what I discovered & did to fix it while it was still fresh in my mind.


Link to the original article geared for Arch - https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/AMDGPU
Ruler2112
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Re: WINE without Vulkan?

Post by Ruler2112 »

Most likely the final update on this:

I used winetricks to install dxvk. That eliminated the graphical error box when Oblivion went to start, but it spewed '0024:err:vulkan:wine_vk_init Failed to load libvulkan.so.1.' and '0024:err:vulkan:init_vulkan Failed to load Wine graphics driver supporting Vulkan.' to the console. This was puzzling to me as libvulkan.so.1 is on my system. After doing some poking around online, I found mention that one may need both the 64 and 32 bit packages installed. Trying to install libvulkan1 resulted in my being told that libvulkan1:i386 replaced it. apt install libvulkan1:i386 and Oblivion now starts. :)
jury
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Re: WINE without Vulkan?

Post by jury »

Wait, I do not think I understand above. Does it mean that even thou you graphics card does not support vulkan, installing libvulkan.so.1 library helps to start Oblivion?
Ruler2112
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Re: WINE without Vulkan?

Post by Ruler2112 »

jury wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2024 2:39 am Wait, I do not think I understand above. Does it mean that even thou you graphics card does not support vulkan, installing libvulkan.so.1 library helps to start Oblivion?
It did
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