Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Questions about Wine on macOS.
rjhancock
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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by rjhancock » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:34 am

Last report from CodeWeavers was they HOPE to have it working by end of the year.

They’ve managed to get Notepad+ running I believe but that is as far as it’s gotten.

Gcenx
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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by Gcenx » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:31 pm

For updates all anyone needs to do is check CodeWeavers blog....
https://www.codeweavers.com/about/blogs ... ber-3-2019?

They made a lot of progress in a short time, can’t wait to try it out.

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by rjhancock » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:27 pm

I’m curious as well. If they don’t do the OpenGL -> Metal switch this go around, they’ll have to do it in the next few years which will give D3D performance a major boost.


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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by sheshojr » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:46 pm

And so, wine not run in catalina ? for catalina no run 32bit software ?

And, sepak about codeweavers but this aplication is the paygment ?

And fot this momento I use aplication in wine with 32 bit and not upgrade to catalina...

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by Gcenx » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:16 am

sheshojr wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:46 pm
And so, wine not run in catalina ? for catalina no run 32bit software ?
macOS Catalina has no 32Bit support so no wine 32Bit
sheshojr wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:46 pm
And, sepak about codeweavers but this aplication is the paygment ?
CodeWeavers are the commercial backing of wine, yes CrossOver is paid software.
sheshojr wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:46 pm
And fot this momento I use aplication in wine with 32 bit and not upgrade to catalina...
Don’t upgrade to macOS Catalina if you need wine!

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by SPlatten » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:37 am

It would have been nice if before switching to Catalina there was some kind of warning of what would be lost. As it turns out after a long update I've now lost the facility to use my Epson Printer/Scanner until a new driver is released and now also Wine. I was in the middle of development which relied on using Wine to run HeidiSQL on my Mac, which is in my opinion the best SQL client by a long shot. Now I've been set back.

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by rjhancock » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:53 am

Sequel Pro works in a pinch for MySQL but it has pretty much been sent to abandonware. It does still run on Catalina and parts of the codebase has been updated via PR's of the community.

As a developer, it's always a good idea to check for compatibility of required software before doing updates.

Only other options for the time being is to either downgrade back to Mojave or to use a VM for HeidiSQL

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by rmmatos » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:22 am

Good Morning.

I use macos in my daily life, and yesterday I had to upgrade to macos 10.15.

I use Wine daily to run SQLyog, 64 bit version.

For me, in this case, I had no difficulty, I just had to open the software by command line, using wine64, but to make it easy, I created an Automator script that I can directly call the exe and have it open with my App. , and then my app calls the command line.

I would like to share with the community, but I don't know where to share.

can anybody help me?

Hugs

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by Gcenx » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:58 pm

rmmatos wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:22 am
Good Morning.

I use macos in my daily life, and yesterday I had to upgrade to macos 10.15.
Unless your developing something that requires Metal-3.0 or SwiftUI upgrading wouldn’t be required at the moment.
rmmatos wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:22 am
I use Wine daily to run SQLyog, 64 bit version.

For me, in this case, I had no difficulty, I just had to open the software by command line, using wine64,
Myself and a few other community members played with wine64 on Mojave with 32Bit code execution disabled & directly on the Catalina beta releases it’s not a real solution.
rmmatos wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:22 am
but to make it easy, I created an Automator script that I can directly call the exe and have it open with my App. , and then my app calls the command line.

I would like to share with the community, but I don't know where to share.

can anybody help me?

Hugs
The macOS wiki section has information on making multiple types of launchers.

While wine64 does indeed function on macOS Catalina it’s not wise to share that information as a “solution” since wine64 can only run pure 64Bit applications, while that might seem great the reality is most applications still use 32Bit installers and/or use 32Bit & 64Bit library’s/api calls meaning it’s mostly useless except for edge cases like the one you lucky fell into.

CrossOver19 blog update;
https://www.codeweavers.com/about/blogs ... er-25-2019

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by ASTROLlif3 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:30 pm

DarkShadow44 wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:09 pm
It's not really that we need to figure out what needs to be done, someone needs to actually do it. CodeWeavers is working on it, AFAIK.
All the options we have are pretty difficult - Apple was pretty throughout with removing 32bit support. What's left is virtualization and emulation, and integrating that is a PITA. 32bit <-> 64bit thunking is basically a must. And that takes time and a lot of effort. Not to mention getting the performance right...
CodeWeavers has published the first alpha build of CrossOver 19, which looks to have a pretty good success rate. If they figure out how to run Wine on macOS Catalina; does Wine mirror support? Or are they to separate identities?

Thanks.

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dimesio
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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by dimesio » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:49 am

ASTROLlif3 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:30 pm
CodeWeavers has published the first alpha build of CrossOver 19, which looks to have a pretty good success rate. If they figure out how to run Wine on macOS Catalina; does Wine mirror support? Or are they to separate identities?
While Codeweavers employs some of the Wine developers, including Alexandre, Codeweavers and the Wine Project are separate entities.

This was discussed at WineConf. Alexandre made it clear that the Codeweavers solution is a hack that will not be accepted into Wine's development branch. The long term solution for Wine is the change from ELF to PE. Work on that has already begun, but it is not going to be completed any time soon. When I asked Alexandre for an estimate, he said it will definitely not be ready for Wine 5.0, but might be ready for Wine 6.0.

Codeweavers has said they intend to release their Catalina code under a free software license, so anyone who wants to compile Wine with it can, but at present no one has volunteered to maintain that code.

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by Gcenx » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:52 am

dimesio wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:49 am
While Codeweavers employs some of the Wine developers, including Alexandre, Codeweavers and the Wine Project are separate entities.

This was discussed at WineConf. Alexandre made it clear that the Codeweavers solution is a hack that will not be accepted into Wine's development branch. The long term solution for Wine is the change from ELF to PE. Work on that has already begun, but it is not going to be completed any time soon. When I asked Alexandre for an estimate, he said it will definitely not be ready for Wine 5.0, but might be ready for Wine 6.0.

Codeweavers has said they intend to release their Catalina code under a free software license, so anyone who wants to compile Wine with it can, but at present no one has volunteered to maintain that code.
It’s unfortunate that no Wineconf videos have been uploaded that I’m aware of I was hoping to catch a s demo.

Honestly nobody can maintain the code currently until it’s released, but once it’s released I could see some community members being interested, unless the custom llvm/clang got changed since the last public commit from chip I’m ready to compile it from source the second it lands as usual.

If CodeWeaver really want the code to be maintained then it would be better them adding CrossOver19 to git so each patch can be seen as an individual commit, the source is always just a straight dump making it more difficult since you need to figure out the CX patches from the regular wine/upstream patch sets (I’ve looked into it before it was a pain in the arse)

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by dimesio » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:58 am

Gcenx wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:52 am
It’s unfortunate that no Wineconf videos have been uploaded that I’m aware of I was hoping to catch a s demo.
They will be uploaded eventually; the delay is because is there's only one person working on preparing them. https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-d ... 53138.html

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by SteveS » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:45 am

Hello all, thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Is it possible to run x64 apps on Catalina currently? I've read through the the thread and see the general response of "Technically yes but Practically no"...

I was attempting this this morning. I extracted https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/macos ... x64.tar.gz and when I run it, it seems to work.

Code: Select all

./wine64 --version
wine-4.0.2
However, I used Visual Studio 2012 to create an x64 build of a basic C++ MFC dialog app (no custom code, just the auto-generated code to load a blank dialog with an OK/Cancel button). When I attempt to run this app, I get an error message stating

Code: Select all

./wine64 /path/to/my/x64App.exe
wine: '/Users/MyUser/.wine' is a 32-bit installation, it cannot support 64-bit applications.
Is the osx64 tarball (and the subsequent wine64 binary) not actually x64? I mean it has to be to a point right? otherwise Catalina wouldn't have allowed the --version to execute.

What am I missing?

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by Gcenx » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:37 pm

dimesio wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:58 am
Gcenx wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:52 am
It’s unfortunate that no Wineconf videos have been uploaded that I’m aware of I was hoping to catch a s demo.
They will be uploaded eventually; the delay is because is there's only one person working on preparing them. https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-d ... 53138.html
Ah I’m not signed up for the mailing list too many emails already.

Since CodeWeavers announced an Alpha I might setup an external install of Catalina and give it a spin for myself.

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by SteveS » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:29 am

SteveS wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:45 am
Hello all, thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Is it possible to run x64 apps on Catalina currently? I've read through the the thread and see the general response of "Technically yes but Practically no"...

I was attempting this this morning. I extracted https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/macos ... x64.tar.gz and when I run it, it seems to work.

Code: Select all

./wine64 --version
wine-4.0.2
However, I used Visual Studio 2012 to create an x64 build of a basic C++ MFC dialog app (no custom code, just the auto-generated code to load a blank dialog with an OK/Cancel button). When I attempt to run this app, I get an error message stating

Code: Select all

./wine64 /path/to/my/x64App.exe
wine: '/Users/MyUser/.wine' is a 32-bit installation, it cannot support 64-bit applications.
Is the osx64 tarball (and the subsequent wine64 binary) not actually x64? I mean it has to be to a point right? otherwise Catalina wouldn't have allowed the --version to execute.

What am I missing?
FYI, I figured this out. Apparently at some point I had attempted to run the wine binary (not wine64) on this machine which created a 32bit wineprefix directory structure (Not 100% sure if that terminology is correct). I deleted /Users/MyUser/.wine and ran my app again and it worked fine. Note that I also had to statically link the MFC libraries in the app since Microsoft's x64 VC++ runtime installer is still 32bit.

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by magonicolas » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:43 pm

Hello, Where Can I check last updates about this? I really need Wine for Catalina version.


Bests

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by rjhancock » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:26 am

magonicolas wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:43 pm
Hello, Where Can I check last updates about this? I really need Wine for Catalina version.
Officially it will probably be quite a while before a proper version of wine that can run 32bit apps on Catalina. If a pure 64-bit app, it should run "fine" (I have 2 games I play now that run through Wine, but it still took several months after release before they did).

As stated above, it might not be until Wine 6.0 before there is a proper solution which I imagine is several years away.

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by IndianaTux » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:45 pm

Anyone tried running wine inside Docker on macOS Catalina ?

Ref: https://hub.docker.com/r/scottyhardy/docker-wine/

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by Gcenx » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:18 pm

rjhancock wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:26 am
Officially it will probably be quite a while before a proper version of wine that can run 32bit apps on Catalina. If a pure 64-bit app, it should run "fine" (I have 2 games I play now that run through Wine, but it still took several months after release before they did).

As stated above, it might not be until Wine 6.0 before there is a proper solution which I imagine is several years away.
Wine-5.0 will be sometime January 2020
Wine-6.0 will be sometime January 2021
IndianaTux wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:45 pm
Anyone tried running wine inside Docker on macOS Catalina ?

Ref: https://hub.docker.com/r/scottyhardy/docker-wine/
That requires XQuartz to be installed, I’m not sure the pkg installer is 64Bit, also no 3D acceleration will be available to docker unlike on Linux.

The best option is to downgrade back down to macOS Mojave, if downgrading isn’t an option then CrossOver19 and above will be the only option for sometime.


Edit;
If anyone is that interested in getting wine64 running on macOS Catalina I could throw together a couple of Portfiles together, that would be better then trying to use the Winehq pkg or portable releases.

But usage will still be limited of course due ego 64Bit only

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by alexchandel » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:31 pm

dimesio wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:49 am
ASTROLlif3 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:30 pm
CodeWeavers has published the first alpha build of CrossOver 19, which looks to have a pretty good success rate. If they figure out how to run Wine on macOS Catalina; does Wine mirror support? Or are they to separate identities?
This was discussed at WineConf. Alexandre made it clear that the Codeweavers solution is a hack that will not be accepted into Wine's development branch. The long term solution for Wine is the change from ELF to PE. Work on that has already begun, but it is not going to be completed any time soon. When I asked Alexandre for an estimate, he said it will definitely not be ready for Wine 5.0, but might be ready for Wine 6.0.
Why is CodeWeaver's 32-on-64bit unacceptable for Wine? How does changing from ELF to PE solve 32-bit execution on Catalina?

Using Hypervisor.framework seems technically feasible, but more of a hack.

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by Gcenx » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:44 am

alexchandel wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:31 pm
Why is CodeWeaver's 32-on-64bit unacceptable for Wine? How does changing from ELF to PE solve 32-bit execution on Catalina?

Using Hypervisor.framework seems technically feasible, but more of a hack.
The reason it’s unacceptable is due to its reliance on a custom patched version of llvm/clang to compile.

The new patched clang/llvm added -mwine32 (and some other additions) using that flag instead of the usual -m32 will have llvm doing the heavy lifting generating the trunking code.


Wine moving to PE is for various reasons.
A simple reason Windows uses PE files not ELF files so any checks will fail on wine mostly due to the stub dll files that link to the real ELF.

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by nagybal » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:19 am

dimesio wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:49 am
he said it will definitely not be ready for Wine 5.0, but might be ready for Wine 6.0.
What is the target date for 5.0??

ps: They act like this move from Apple was a surprise. They are letting a whole community down for years? What is happening???

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Re: Catalina and the future of Wine on Mac

Post by rjhancock » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:25 am

As stated by Gcenx on Nov 8, 5.0 is expected Jan 2020 with 6.0 expected Jan 2021.

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