ElderScrolls - case-sensitivity, many of the same file

D3RGPS31 · Post by **D3RGPS31** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:41 pm

Hypothetically, I have 2 different textures, TX_Skin, & tx_skin. A plugin calls TX_SKIN to be applied to an ojbect, which texture does it use?

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:07 pm

D3RGPS31 wrote:Hypothetically, I have 2 different textures, TX_Skin, & tx_skin.

You shouldn't have those two if you were using Wine to install/create/download those files.

D3RGPS31 wrote:A plugin calls TX_SKIN to be applied to an ojbect, which texture does it use?

Not defined. It can be one of the other depending on which one was returned from the file system listing first.

D3RGPS31 · Post by **D3RGPS31** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:27 pm

The EldersSrolls series use plugins, that you just extract into the 'Data Files' directory

example:
Data Files/Textures/TX_Skin
Data Files/Textures/tx_skin

austin987 · Post by **austin987** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:00 am

On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 7:27 PM, D3RGPS31 <[email protected]> wrote:

The EldersSrolls series use plugins, that you just extract into the 'Data Files' directory

example:
Data Files/Textures/TX_Skin
Data Files/Textures/tx_skin

The plugins were made for windows, which doesn't support those
filenames...how is there a problem?

D3RGPS31 · Post by **D3RGPS31** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:46 am

Because, I'm not on windows, I'm on Linux using Wine, as you should know, Linux filenames are case-sensitive... Windows are not. As you look at my example, you'll see files, with the same names, different cases, being used. How is it decided which file will be used when the plugin for the application calls TX_SKIN?

Zachary Goldberg · Post by **Zachary Goldberg** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:10 am

On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 10:46 AM, D3RGPS31 <[email protected]> wrote:

Because, I'm not on windows, I'm on Linux using Wine, as you should know, Linux filenames are case-sensitive... Windows are not. As you look at my example, you'll see files, with the same names, different cases, being used. How is it decided which file will be used when the plugin for the application calls TX_SKIN?

As far as you or I are concerned, its chance. In reality it depends
how the app calls it, where the app gets that filename from etc.. If
its from the FS as it was said before then it depends on your
filesystem driver, if its in the app then its some sort of weird
setting which could depend on 100 factors of which we have no idea.

_IF_ you're experiencing weird behavior that you think is based on
this problem then my suggestion is to pick one of the two files that
you believe is the right one (likely the more recently written one),
and get rid of (always backup first) the old one. On windows the
newer one would have overwritten the older one so this should be a
safe thing to do.

--Zach

austin987 · Post by **austin987** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:45 pm

On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 9:46 AM, D3RGPS31 <[email protected]> wrote:

Because, I'm not on windows, I'm on Linux using Wine, as you should know, Linux filenames are case-sensitive... Windows are not. As you look at my example, you'll see files, with the same names, different cases, being used. How is it decided which file will be used when the plugin for the application calls TX_SKIN?

Right, but since you're using a windows application, you shouldn't
have files with similar names (only different in casing). How did that
occur? Different versions of the file, etc.?

Zachary Goldberg · Post by **Zachary Goldberg** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:08 am

On 8/11/08, Austin English <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 9:46 AM, D3RGPS31 <[email protected]> wrote:
Because, I'm not on windows, I'm on Linux using Wine, as you should know, Linux filenames are case-sensitive... Windows are not. As you look at my example, you'll see files, with the same names, different cases, being used. How is it decided which file will be used when the plugin for the application calls TX_SKIN?

Right, but since you're using a windows application, you shouldn't
have files with similar names (only different in casing). How did that
occur? Different versions of the file, etc.?

I think he installed a plugin or a patch of some sort which was meant
to overwrite the file and would have in windows but whoever provided
the module used different casing.

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:28 pm

Zachary Goldberg wrote:On 8/11/08, Austin English <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 9:46 AM, D3RGPS31 <[email protected]> wrote:
Because, I'm not on windows, I'm on Linux using Wine, as you should know, Linux filenames are case-sensitive... Windows are not. As you look at my example, you'll see files, with the same names, different cases, being used. How is it decided which file will be used when the plugin for the application calls TX_SKIN?
Right, but since you're using a windows application, you shouldn't
have files with similar names (only different in casing). How did that
occur? Different versions of the file, etc.?
I think he installed a plugin or a patch of some sort which was meant
to overwrite the file and would have in windows but whoever provided
the module used different casing.

That should not happen and never does.

I'm sure what he did is extracted files on Linux. In that case there is not much Wine can do about it.

Zachary Goldberg · Post by **Zachary Goldberg** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:34 pm

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:28 PM, vitamin <[email protected]> wrote:

Zachary Goldberg wrote:
On 8/11/08, Austin English <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 9:46 AM, D3RGPS31 <[email protected]> wrote:
Right, but since you're using a windows application, you shouldn't
have files with similar names (only different in casing). How did that
occur? Different versions of the file, etc.?
I think he installed a plugin or a patch of some sort which was meant
to overwrite the file and would have in windows but whoever provided
the module used different casing.
That should not happen and never does.

Why is that? It seems completely possible as described above and...

I'm sure what he did is extracted files on Linux. In that case there is not much Wine can do about it.

Thats exactly as I described, a patch or plugin attempts to put in
some file (from an archive, extracted).

Am I missing something?

jorl17 · Post by **jorl17** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:03 pm

Zachary Goldberg wrote:On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:28 PM, vitamin <[email protected]> wrote:
Zachary Goldberg wrote:
On 8/11/08, Austin English <[email protected]> wrote:
I think he installed a plugin or a patch of some sort which was meant
to overwrite the file and would have in windows but whoever provided
the module used different casing.
That should not happen and never does.
Why is that? It seems completely possible as described above and...

I'm guessing that you didn't try to go to windows and create two folders with the same name but with different cases. It won't work.

that means you can never have those two plugins in the same directory.

Windows allows to 'browse' and 'search' with case insensivity but it doesn't allow you to have two files with the same name, for the exact same reason. (Correct me if wrong, but I tested this a while ago)...

EDIT: Oh, I get it...Well, the I guess you could try to use a windows extractor...(dunno)

Zachary Goldberg · Post by **Zachary Goldberg** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:08 pm

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 2:03 PM, jorl17 <[email protected]> wrote:

Zachary Goldberg wrote:
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:28 PM, vitamin <[email protected]> wrote:

Zachary Goldberg wrote:
That should not happen and never does.

Why is that? It seems completely possible as described above and...

I'm guessing that you didn't try to go to windows and create two folders with the same name but with different cases. It won't work.

that means you can never have those two plugins in the same directory.

Windows allows to 'browse' and 'search' with case insensivity but it doesn't allow you to have two files with the same name, for the exact same reason. (Correct me if wrong, but I tested this a while ago)...

Each of the scenarios I described was about running a game with Wine on Linux.

austin987 · Post by **austin987** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:09 pm

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:03 PM, jorl17 <[email protected]> wrote:

Zachary Goldberg wrote:
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:28 PM, vitamin <[email protected]> wrote:

Zachary Goldberg wrote:
That should not happen and never does.

Why is that? It seems completely possible as described above and...

I'm guessing that you didn't try to go to windows and create two folders with the same name but with different cases. It won't work.

that means you can never have those two plugins in the same directory.

Windows allows to 'browse' and 'search' with case insensivity but it doesn't allow you to have two files with the same name, for the exact same reason. (Correct me if wrong, but I tested this a while ago)...

Right. But here's most likely what happened:

User installs game, comes with some file called TX_Skin.

Installs mod/update that comes with a new file, called tx_SKIN.

In windows, tx_SKIN would replace TX_Skin, but under wine, they can coexist.

Now, when run under wine, it's ambiguous which is chosen.

Zachary Goldberg · Post by **Zachary Goldberg** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:12 pm

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Austin English <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:03 PM, jorl17 <[email protected]> wrote:
Zachary Goldberg wrote:
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:28 PM, vitamin <[email protected]> wrote:
Why is that? It seems completely possible as described above and...

I'm guessing that you didn't try to go to windows and create two folders with the same name but with different cases. It won't work.

that means you can never have those two plugins in the same directory.

Windows allows to 'browse' and 'search' with case insensivity but it doesn't allow you to have two files with the same name, for the exact same reason. (Correct me if wrong, but I tested this a while ago)...

Right. But here's most likely what happened:

User installs game, comes with some file called TX_Skin.

Installs mod/update that comes with a new file, called tx_SKIN.

In windows, tx_SKIN would replace TX_Skin, but under wine, they can coexist.

Now, when run under wine, it's ambiguous which is chosen.

Right, which means we're back to my post on 8/10 about what the op
should do in this scenario. Unless the op has further questions, I
think this thread is closed.

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:18 pm

austin987 wrote:User installs game, comes with some file called TX_Skin.

Installs mod/update that comes with a new file, called tx_SKIN.

In windows, tx_SKIN would replace TX_Skin, but under wine, they can coexist.

Now, when run under wine, it's ambiguous which is chosen.

Wrong that should never happen on Wine. And never does. _IF_ everything was done _UNDER_ Wine. If user created second file (with different case) with system Wine has no control over that.

austin987 · Post by **austin987** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:21 pm

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:18 PM, vitamin <[email protected]> wrote:

austin987 wrote:
User installs game, comes with some file called TX_Skin.

Installs mod/update that comes with a new file, called tx_SKIN.

In windows, tx_SKIN would replace TX_Skin, but under wine, they can coexist.

Now, when run under wine, it's ambiguous which is chosen.
Wrong that should never happen on Wine. And never does. _IF_ everything was done _UNDER_ Wine. If user created second file (with different case) with system Wine has no control over that.

Many mods don't come with installers, but are rather a zip file that
is extracted and placed in the directory. If run under wine with 7zip
for instance, that would work, but most people would use a native
linux app.

Zachary Goldberg · Post by **Zachary Goldberg** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:23 pm

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 2:18 PM, vitamin <[email protected]> wrote:

austin987 wrote:
User installs game, comes with some file called TX_Skin.

Installs mod/update that comes with a new file, called tx_SKIN.

In windows, tx_SKIN would replace TX_Skin, but under wine, they can coexist.

Now, when run under wine, it's ambiguous which is chosen.
Wrong that should never happen on Wine. And never does. _IF_ everything was done _UNDER_ Wine. If user created second file (with different case) with system Wine has no control over that.

You don't explain why what you say is true; thus I am unconvinced.

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:14 pm

Zachary Goldberg wrote:On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 2:18 PM, vitamin <[email protected]> wrote:
austin987 wrote:
User installs game, comes with some file called TX_Skin.

Installs mod/update that comes with a new file, called tx_SKIN.

In windows, tx_SKIN would replace TX_Skin, but under wine, they can coexist.

Now, when run under wine, it's ambiguous which is chosen.
Wrong that should never happen on Wine. And never does. _IF_ everything was done _UNDER_ Wine. If user created second file (with different case) with system Wine has no control over that.

You don't explain why what you say is true; thus I am unconvinced.

Of course you can always read the source code yourself... if you don't trust developers.

jorl17 · Post by **jorl17** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:29 pm

Maybe you could do what I suggested when extracting mods:

Get some 7ZIP or such (I haven't checked if it works), but that should make the calls to files go through WINE that'll handle the case.

Of course it'll slow down things, but I think that if that problem exists, it can be fixed like this.

Or just extract to a temporary folder, then make a script to lower-case or upper-case everything and run this script on both the temp folder and the destination folder. After that move temp into dest and it _shpuld_ work.

Just a suggestion.

Oh and:

Right. But here's most likely what happened:

User installs game, comes with some file called TX_Skin.

Installs mod/update that comes with a new file, called tx_SKIN.

In windows, tx_SKIN would replace TX_Skin, but under wine, they can coexist.

Now, when run under wine, it's ambiguous which is chosen.

I realised that after re-reading my own ost, that's whgy I edited it and gave the last suggestion

Thanks.