WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Open forum for end-user questions about Wine. Before asking questions, check out the Wiki as a first step.
Forum Rules
Locked
Canard
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:14 am

WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by Canard »

NSOED (New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary) is a 16 Bit application dating from the Win 3.11/Win 95/Win NT 3.5 or 4 era.

I an running WINE in Linux Mint 20 Cinnamon. It is up-to-date.

NSOED has previously run without problems on all versions of WINE that I have used prior to version 8.0.

In 8.0 the application will run, but it cannot load, or perhaps find, its database file, NEWSOEDS.AND.

The database file does not install with the application but remains in the installation files folder; in the days of very small hard drives, it was intended to be read from the installation CD. For installation, I copy all the installation files to a directory on the WINE C:\ drive with the same name as the CD volume name and run the installation from there. This has always worked.

With the current problem, I have experimented with moving the NEWSOEDS.AND file and editing the NEWSOED.INI file to reflect the new location of the database file. But it all has no effect. So I suspect that the application cannot load the database when running in version 8.0.

I have also tried uninstalling and reinstalling the application within version 8.0, but this does not work either.

In the end, I used Time Shift to set the system back to a point before the version 8.0 update and reinstalled NSOED. Everything is good again.
jkfloris
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 3136
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:10 am

Re: WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by jkfloris »

Could you post a terminal output?
Canard
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:14 am

Re: WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by Canard »

jkfloris wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:28 am Could you post a terminal output?
Thank you for the reply.

Yes, I can post a terminal output, but at this point in time, it will only show what happens when the program runs properly since I have restored the system to a point before Wine 8.0 was installed.

Code: Select all

cd '.wine/drive_c/Program Files/NewSOED'
wine NEWSOED.EXE
xxxx@xxxxx:~$ cd '.wine/drive_c/Program Files/NewSOED'
xxxx@xxxxx:~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/NewSOED$ wine NEWSOED.EXE
008c:fixme:imm:ImeSetActiveContext (0x4d6a0, 0): stub
008c:fixme:imm:ImmReleaseContext (0000000000010020, 000000000004D6A0): stub
010c:fixme:imm:ImeSetActiveContext (0x2734e8, 1): stub
010c:fixme:imm:ImmReleaseContext (0001005A, 002734E8): stub
I suppose I can, if necessary, break things again and then perform this exercise again.
Last edited by Canard on Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
jkfloris
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 3136
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:10 am

Re: WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by jkfloris »

You can also install two Wine versions side by side. This makes testing a bit easier.
I assume you have now installed the winehq-stable version 7.0.1 package.

- Install the wine-devel package (notice the missing hq after wine)

Code: Select all

sudo apt install --install-recommends wine-devel
- Copy the working prefix to a new prefix

Code: Select all

cp -r "${HOME}/.wine" "${HOME}/NSOED"
- Run the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary with wine-devel

Code: Select all

cd "${HOME}/NSOED/drive_c/Program Files/NewSOED"
WINEPREFIX="${HOME}/NSOED" /opt/wine-devel/bin/wine NEWSOED.EXE
Canard
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:14 am

Re: WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by Canard »

Thank you again for your kind attention.
jkfloris wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:27 am I assume you have now installed the winehq-stable version 7.0.1 package.
Yes. This assumption is entirely correct.
jkfloris wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:27 am - Install the wine-devel package (notice the missing hq after wine)

Code: Select all

sudo apt install --install-recommends wine-devel
- Copy the working prefix to a new prefix

Code: Select all

cp -r "${HOME}/.wine" "${HOME}/NSOED"
- Run the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary with wine-devel

Code: Select all

cd "${HOME}/NSOED/drive_c/Program Files/NewSOED"
WINEPREFIX="${HOME}/NSOED" /opt/wine-devel/bin/wine NEWSOED.EXE
Done.

NSOED's behaviour is the same in the current wine-devel package as it was in 8.0 stable. The application runs but cannot load its dictionary database.

Terminal output with wine configuration update text included:

Code: Select all

xxxx@xxxxx:~/NSOED/drive_c/Program Files/NewSOED$ WINEPREFIX="${HOME}/NSOED" /opt/wine-devel/bin/wine NEWSOED.EXE
0084:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
0084:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
0084:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
0084:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
0094:fixme:imm:ImeSetActiveContext (0000000000010026, 0): stub
0094:fixme:imm:ImmReleaseContext (0000000000010020, 0000000000010026): stub
002c:fixme:imm:ImeSetActiveContext (0000000000010052, 1): stub
002c:fixme:imm:ImmReleaseContext (0000000000010050, 0000000000010052): stub
wine: configuration in L"/home/dduck/NSOED" has been updated.
0144:fixme:imm:ImeSetActiveContext (00020068, 1): stub
0144:fixme:imm:ImmReleaseContext (00030078, 00020068): stub
Terminal output from a second run attempt, this time without the configuration update:

Code: Select all

xxxx@xxxxx:~/NSOED/drive_c/Program Files/NewSOED$ WINEPREFIX="${HOME}/NSOED" /opt/wine-devel/bin/wine NEWSOED.EXE
0080:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
0080:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
0080:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
0080:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
0098:fixme:imm:ImeSetActiveContext (0000000000010026, 0): stub
0098:fixme:imm:ImmReleaseContext (0000000000010020, 0000000000010026): stub
0110:fixme:imm:ImeSetActiveContext (00010060, 1): stub
0110:fixme:imm:ImmReleaseContext (0001005E, 00010060): stub
jkfloris
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 3136
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:10 am

Re: WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by jkfloris »

NSOED's behaviour is the same in the current wine-devel package as it was in 8.0 stable.
That's because wine-stable and wine-devel are at this moment the same package.

Unfortunately, the output does not give a clue what is going wrong.

You can try to find the latest working Wine version.

We know the error is somewhere between 7.0 and 8.0. Try 7.11 first. If that version works, then the error is between 7.11 and 8.0. Then try again the version in the middle of that, 7.18. If that one doesn't work anymore, the error is between 7.11 and 7.18. Just keep trying until you know which version is the first to show the problem.

Code: Select all

# list all available Wine versions
apt policy wine-devel

# install the Wine version with
sudo apt install wine-devel=7.11~focal-1 wine-devel-amd64=7.11~focal-1 wine-devel-i386=7.11~focal-1
After you found the version open a bug report.

Unfortunately I can't find a copy of the CD-rom online, otherwise I could have helped with the search.
Canard
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:14 am

Re: WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by Canard »

Thank you again.

Oxford University Press is rather fierce about copyright protection. I don't imagine that they care much at all about an ancient piece of software from 1993 to 1997 (copyright, probably textual copyright, starting at 1973), but I suspect that they do care very much about the textual content of application's database.

Also NSOED, being a 16 bit application, long ago ceased to function in Windows. So its utility to the world at large is limited. To the best of my knowledge, it will not run or install in any currently supported version of Windows.

And the installation files folder is about 168.6 Mb in size, not huge now, but sizeable enough that it would likely be culled from online storage if nobody was ever accessing it. And I don't imagine it would compress much.

So it is not surprising that you cannot find the application cached in abandon-ware archives.

It runs/ran nicely in WINE as long as 32 bit support is enabled, and here it is still a very useful application, even if its textual content is somewhat outdated. Language and usage shift like sand dunes, and 30 years or so is a long time here.

I will experiment with the different Wine versions as you suggest. It will, however, take me some time to do so. It may be a month or more before I can return to this issue. Your kind patience is requested. If my efforts help squash a very small bug, it will be an insignificant contribution in comparison to the years of enjoyment I have received from Wine itself over the years.

Cheers. More later.
Last edited by Canard on Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Canard
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:14 am

Re: WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by Canard »

Canard wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:10 pm I will experiment with the different Wine versions as you suggest.
I had opportunity to start on this experiment yesterday, but then it occurred to me that I do not know how to do this.

Although I have used WINE for many years, I have never before had any need to colour outside the lines of current Stable releases. And so I find the instructions here -- https://wiki.winehq.org/Ubuntu -- a little cryptic.
There are several versions of Wine on the repository. The latest version is installed by default. Usually, the latest version is recommended. However, it may happen that an older version is desired. Use

Code: Select all

apt policy winehq-<branch>
to list the different available versions.
Install an older version of your choice with

Code: Select all

sudo apt install winehq-<branch>=<version>
For example:

Code: Select all

sudo apt install winehq-staging=7.12~bookworm-1
When the Wine packages are downgraded, all four Wine packages must be downgraded.

Code: Select all

sudo apt install winehq-staging=7.12~bookworm-1 wine-staging=7.12~bookworm-1 wine-staging-amd64=7.12~bookworm-1 wine-staging-i386=7.12~bookworm-1
Last edited by Canard on Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
jkfloris
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 3136
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:10 am

Re: WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by jkfloris »

The instructions are slightly different for you.

The winehq-devel package provides the wine command on the computer. In your case, we don't want this package, because we want wine to point to wine 7.0.1

Three packages remain:
wine-devel
wine-devel-amd64
wine-devel-i386

First, find out which versions of wine-devel are available:

Code: Select all

apt policy wine-devel

wine-devel:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 8.1~focal-1
  Version table:
     8.1~focal-1 500
        500 https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/ubuntu focal/main amd64 Packages
     8.0.0~focal-1 500
        500 https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/ubuntu focal/main amd64 Packages
...

     7.20~focal-1 500
     ^^^^^^^^^^^--> In the example, this version is installed
...
     7.19~focal-1 500
        500 https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/ubuntu focal/main amd64 Packages
...
Now you can install the desired version with:

Code: Select all

sudo apt install wine-devel=7.20~focal-1 wine-devel-amd64=7.20~focal-1 wine-devel-i386=7.20~focal-1
Run the program as follows:

Code: Select all

cd "${HOME}/NSOED/drive_c/Program Files/NewSOED"
WINEPREFIX="${HOME}/NSOED" /opt/wine-devel/bin/wine NEWSOED.EXE
When you want to install another wine version.
For example, for version 7.11

Code: Select all

sudo apt install wine-devel=7.11~focal-1 wine-devel-amd64=7.11~focal-1 wine-devel-i386=7.11~focal-1
And try to run the program again:

Code: Select all

cd "${HOME}/NSOED/drive_c/Program Files/NewSOED"
WINEPREFIX="${HOME}/NSOED" /opt/wine-devel/bin/wine NEWSOED.EXE
Canard
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:14 am

Re: WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by Canard »

@jkfloris

Thank you again. I will get on to this as soon as I can.

Cheers.
Canard
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:14 am

Re: WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by Canard »

@jkfloris

Sorry. I have not had opportunity to return to this problem again, yet. I have been out of town for a bit, away from my desktop machine.

However, I have found the NSOED software cached, contained within a CD image file:

https://archive.org/details/pcbasics-31
jkfloris
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 3136
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:10 am

Re: WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by jkfloris »

I also can find a problem with NSOED and Wine 8.0. It doesn't look like there is anything wrong with the database, but that the screens in NSOED are not displaying properly. The last good version is Wine 7.4. As of Wine 7.5, the screens are no longer visible at startup.

Do you see the screens when you select WindowCascade?

If you have any more information about the problem, please attach them to the bug:
https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54598
Canard
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:14 am

Re: WINE 8.0 Breaks NSOED

Post by Canard »

jkfloris wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:33 am I also can find a problem with NSOED and Wine 8.0. It doesn't look like there is anything wrong with the database, but that the screens in NSOED are not displaying properly. The last good version is Wine 7.4. As of Wine 7.5, the screens are no longer visible at startup.

Do you see the screens when you select WindowCascade?
Thank you so much.

Yes. You are correct. I experience the same thing.

The search window within the application no longer loads at application start up, but selecting WindowCascade launches or restores it.

And, we meet exactly the same problem again when we try to open a dictionary entry/definition window for a search result, lets say the word, hammer. Normally double-clicking on hammer or pressing Enter with it highlighted would open its definition window. Now there is the extra step to see the definition window. We double-click hammer, nothing happens, we go to WindowCascade, and then the definition window opens or appears.

So the the problem is that in WINE 8.0 the application can no longer open any windows within itself without selecting WindowCascade as a second step. With this cumbersome workaround, the application will/does run in 8.0.

I was wrong in my assumption that the database did not load. I apologise for any confusion.
Locked