Forum Software Update and mailing list gateway

doh123 · Post by **doh123** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:03 am

also for forums...

I have some set up that use RSS feeds, so I get them all along with my email in RSS forum, with links straight to the posts... and since user name and passwords save in my browser, its not hard to quickly read and reply...

Is there any way in a new forum to have RSS for posts and for digest versions?

tparker · Post by **tparker** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:04 am

On 09/04/2011 08:00 AM, doh123 wrote:

user name and password is saved so I never have to enter them... all
unread messages are marked

Not starting an argument, I can see how that would work for some people.
For some people that check in as time allows around work, forums are not
an option. An email can come from an approved, white listed address with
attachments striped and be checked whenever. A browser is sometimes
locked down tighter. If your network admins restrict saving log in names
and passwords in a browser or javascript on pages then most forums
become a hassle and/or useless. That type of situation may not affect
enough people to matter in this case, but I thought it worth mentioning.

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:14 pm

Lets look at some numbers shell we?

Since forum introduction we've seen a 10 fold increase in number of posts:
Average number of posts per month in 2007: 164
Average number of posts per month in 2008: 1700

Clearly no one can argue that ML list was as active as forum. And that forum was and still is a hit with Wine user base.

Now, looking at the last 6 months:
On average 83% of all posts coming from forum. Remaining 17% that came from ML are split between 8% James, 5% top 5 posters and 4% everyone else.

What does that mean? It means that most people do indeed use forum and not the mailing list. In fact number of posts that came from ML, not counting James', dropped to 1/2 of what it was before forum introduction.

Since development on forum2mail interface is dead and never gotten out of alpha anyway (for phpbb 3.x) it will most likely stay that way. There are some alternatives to reading forum via e-mail (digest), rss. But they will have same issues with spam as we do now.

To sum it up. Regardless what we decide to do, we have to consider forum first then ML. If we can work with top ML posters and persuade them to use forum we can have 95% of all users in one place.

jorl17 · Post by **jorl17** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:53 pm

vitamin wrote:Lets look at some numbers shell we?

Since forum introduction we've seen a 10 fold increase in number of posts:
Average number of posts per month in 2007: 164
Average number of posts per month in 2008: 1700

Clearly no one can argue that ML list was as active as forum. And that forum was and still is a hit with Wine user base.

Now, looking at the last 6 months:
On average 83% of all posts coming from forum. Remaining 17% that came from ML are split between 8% James, 5% top 5 posters and 4% everyone else.

What does that mean? It means that most people do indeed use forum and not the mailing list. In fact number of posts that came from ML, not counting James', dropped to 1/2 of what it was before forum introduction.

Since development on forum2mail interface is dead and never gotten out of alpha anyway (for phpbb 3.x) it will most likely stay that way. There are some alternatives to reading forum via e-mail (digest), rss. But they will have same issues with spam as we do now.

To sum it up. Regardless what we decide to do, we have to consider forum first then ML. If we can work with top ML posters and persuade them to use forum we can have 95% of all users in one place.

Agreed. We've got to think of the user base instead of what's handier to "us".

Post by **dimesio** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:09 pm

vitamin wrote:To sum it up. Regardless what we decide to do, we have to consider forum first then ML.

Agreed.

MacNean Tyrrell · Post by **MacNean Tyrrell** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:15 pm

My 2 cents. I've always had the mailing list. It's convenient for me, tbh
I didn't even know it linked to the forums till I read this. So I have no
clue if the people that have helped me wrote from the ML or the Forum. If
the statistics are 90% forum, then I get it. Just please sent out a warning
before you do, so I know I need to be checking/reading the forum over the
mailing list (I try to read the mailing list once per week, to see if I can
help anyone, but normally someone either beat me to it, or I have no clue,
and it'ss nice to have all entries in one place, guess I just am kinda old
school.). Looks like I joined Feb 2009. Will miss the ML if that's what
you decide, but based on statistics understand.

--
Sincerely,

MacNean C. Tyrrell
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jjmckenzie · Post by **jjmckenzie** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:54 pm

On 9/4/11 4:12 AM, dimesio wrote:

jjmckenzie wrote:
Are you ever going to learn to spell my name correctly?

Of course, dimesio. I just have a faulty 'brain' and somethings like
names are a complete mystery to me on some days.

2. Split the mailing list away from the forums. This was originally
debated and several Wine supporters left because 'we know the spam storm
is coming and I don't want to deal with this.' This option is dead and
was rejected by the majority (at that time) of the mailing list and
forum users.

I'm well aware of the long history of mailing list users' animosity towards the forum, which is precisely why I noted that if the two were split the mailing might actually thrive once again. IMO, the fact that that option was not the one selected initially is no reason not to ever reconsider it in the light of changed circumstances.

The situation changes, options change and some options that were not
considered in the first place now become the best options.

James

jjmckenzie · Post by **jjmckenzie** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:57 pm

On 9/4/11 11:14 AM, vitamin wrote:

Lets look at some numbers shell we?

Since forum introduction we've seen a 10 fold increase in number of posts:
Average number of posts per month in 2007: 164
Average number of posts per month in 2008: 1700

Clearly no one can argue that ML list was as active as forum. And that forum was and still is a hit with Wine user base.

Now, looking at the last 6 months:
On average 83% of all posts coming from forum. Remaining 17% that came from ML are split between 8% James, 5% top 5 posters and 4% everyone else.

I can move to the forums and it would make things easier for me rather
than go through the list day after day...

James

madewokherd · Post by **madewokherd** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:42 am

Â (or keeping the mailing list at all; if
everyone important is on the forum then why have it?).
All our users are important.

By "important" I meant those users who provide good support. If this
is a support channel, we should be most concerned with those people.
Users who need help will go to whatever channels are available. If not
enough people in the mailing list are providing good support, those
users who need help would be better served by going elsewhere, and we
shouldn't keep it.

Jim Hall · Post by **Jim Hall** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:35 am

What version is the forum software? I believe the latest is 3.0.9.

Jim

Post by **dimesio** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:03 am

madewokherd wrote:If not
enough people in the mailing list are providing good support, those
users who need help would be better served by going elsewhere, and we
shouldn't keep it.

IMO, there are enough experienced users on the mailing list to sustain it, if they want to, but the "if they want to" is key. I find it very striking that while several mailing list users have stated emphatically that they will not switch to the forum, absolutely no one has said they want the mailing list to continue. If no one cares enough to even say that, then clearly it is time to pull the plug.

John Drescher · Post by **John Drescher** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:10 am

IMO, there are enough experienced users on the mailing list to sustain it, if they want to, but the "if they want to" is key. I find it very striking that while several mailing list users have stated emphatically that they will not switch to the forum, absolutely no one has said they want the mailing list to continue. If no one cares enough to even say that, then clearly it is time to pull the plug.

I think the point for the users that do not want to go to the forum
(myself included) is that if only 10% of users will use the ML (and
there is no connection to the forum) that traffic would be very low
and may just include those who don't want to switch.

John

Martin Gregorie · Post by **Martin Gregorie** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:10 pm

On Mon, 2011-09-05 at 11:03 -0500, dimesio wrote:

IMO, there are enough experienced users on the mailing list to sustain
it, if they want to, but the "if they want to" is key. I find it very
striking that while several mailing list users have stated
emphatically that they will not switch to the forum, absolutely no one
has said they want the mailing list to continue.

I intend to stay on the mailing list.

If it vanishes I'm likely to provide less advice and help to others for
one simple reason: I look at all messages that arrive on the mailing
list and, if I see a thread about something that I understand and can
help with, I'll respond. However, because scanning down a list of forum
topics and then paging along a thread to see what, if anything, is new
on it is much slower than clicking through mail messages, if I have to
browse threads on a forum its much less likely that I'll take notice of
those started by others or visit the forum unless I *know* there's
something being discussed that I'm interested in.

I would add, that, if the mailing list is replaced by an RSS feed I'd
probably subscribe to that because it too provides a direct access to
active posts.

One thing to consider, though, before going down the RSS route: what
software is being considered to provide an RSS feed? How easy would it
be to implement spam filtering for it? Bear in mind that we know how to
automate spam filtering on mailing lists.

Martin

Post by **jnewman** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:19 pm

Jim Hall wrote:What version is the forum software? I believe the latest is 3.0.9.

Currently we are using PHPbb 2.0.x. Very old to say the least. I plan to upgrade to the latest stable PHPbb 3.x. (3.0.9)

The whole current problem is the mailing list gateway. mail2Forum (or m2f). There is a version for PHP3.x, but it is very unstable and not recommended for production use. I did give it a whirl and tried to install it. I had no luck getting it to even install properly. From the looks of the SVN, there has not been much activity on the project to get it to a stable state.

This leaves us with two options, 1.) remain on the status quo and live with the spam. 2.) Drop the mailing list gateway, so we can have PHPbb 3.x.

Someone earlier asked why we do not delete spam from the mailing list archives. Yes, we can simply remove the .html files from the mailman archives, but this leaves us with 404s. The proper way to do it is have a script remove the spam emails from the mailman list mbox file, and then re-run the archive regeneration routine. I have yet to find said script, perhaps someone can suggest one.

If we drop the gateway, we could possibly switch to another forum software, even a commercial one. I like IP.Board for example. But, that would require a conversion. Not sure if IP.Board has a clean conversion from PHPbb 2.x.

-Newman

perryh · Post by **perryh** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:41 am

"jnewman" <[email protected]> wrote:

If we drop the gateway, we could possibly switch to another forum
software, even a commercial one.

If we switch to a different forum software package we might not
need to drop the gateway.

One example that I happen to be aware of: there is a site called
Disqus which specializes in handling commentary for other sites.
Their software emails out all posts on a topic to anyone who has
subscribed to the topic; IMO this is a more important functionality
than being able to post via email (which Disqus does not support
AFAIK). I presume that it would be a fairly simple customization
to maintain a single subscriber list for the entire forum rather
than per-topic.

I don't know whether the Disqus software is available, but if a
commercial solution is acceptable we might consider outsourcing
the forums to Disqus.

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:53 am

Martin Gregorie wrote:However, because scanning down a list of forum
topics and then paging along a thread to see what, if anything, is new
on it is much slower than clicking through mail messages

This already been addressed by forum software. If you register and login it will remember which threads you read. Also next to each topic with updates it will put a link going to the newest message you haven't read.