Wine 1.3.26 no output from linux console to windows console

C3PO · Post by **C3PO** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:31 am

I have some problems with wineconsole.

2.6.39-gentoo-r3 #1 MSD 2011 x86_64 Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 2.80GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux, KDE 4.
Wine 1.3.26,
KDE 4.6,
Xorg 1.10.2

1. No output from linux console to cmd

wineconsole cmd

dir - gives the correct output from the current directory

uptime : empty output, though the program is found and started
uptimenonexistent : File not found

ls -l : empty output
lsnonexistent -l : File not found

curl http://www.winehq.org > winehq.org - downloads the index page to winegq.org file correctly, but still without any output to CMD

Conclusion: Linux programs are starting in wineconsole cmd but there is no reply from them in cmd.

When I start wineconsole cmd in Kconsole the output of ls -l is redirected to kconsole, - I see the file list in kconsole but not in CMD

2. The second problem is related to FAR manager, when I start a command from FAR command line a new console window is popped up and closed immediately after the command is executed, no output in FAR console window as well.

I tried different combinations - nothing seems to help. Is it a bug? Does anyone know about any solutions?

Thanks.

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:37 am

C3PO wrote:1. No output from linux console to cmd
wineconsole cmd

Wineconsole won't produce any output on the same terminal. It opens a new X window to simulate windows' console. Don't use wineconsole if you need to get output from a command into the same terminal.

C3PO wrote:2. The second problem is related to FAR manager

Don't use far. It's not made for *NIX. There is a comparable replacement midnight commander available.

C3PO · Post by **C3PO** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:59 pm

vitamin wrote:
C3PO wrote:1. No output from linux console to cmd
wineconsole cmd
Wineconsole won't produce any output on the same terminal. It opens a new X window to simulate windows' console. Don't use wineconsole if you need to get output from a command into the same terminal.

OK. BTW wineconsole works under text mode terminal as well as in X window.
Ctl-Alt-F1...
wineconsole cmd

C3PO wrote:2. The second problem is related to FAR manager
Don't use far. It's not made for *NIX. There is a comparable replacement midnight commander available.

Unfortunately there is nothing close to FAR on *NIX platform I used about 10 different file managers, MC included and they all suck compared to FAR. I use MC for about 4 years and anytime I have to choose I'll go for FAR. It saves a lot of time and I mean A LOT when I program and I can't replace FAR for any navigator or IDE in linux which provide me with the same speed to access tools I need.

FAR won't start with wine, only with wineconsole

Thanks for the feedback.

C3PO · Post by **C3PO** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:02 pm

A simple workaround FAR's full feature command line support under wineconsole:

1. Install WinSCP FAR plugin

2. Add SCP session to localhost

Before using FAR initiate SCP session at one or both of the FAR panels.

You're now connected to the same host system with full featured command line support. Now you can use both WIN32 cmd line apps and linux console apps.

Enjoy full featured FAR with command line support

It doesn't look right but it works.

PS if you're using sudo, change sudo bash in the session's config to access your system with root privileges or allow root logins.

Jim Hall · Post by **Jim Hall** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:41 am

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 5:02 PM, C3PO <[email protected]> wrote:

A simple workaround FAR's full feature command line support under wineconsole:

1. Install WinSCP FAR plugin

2. Add SCP session to localhost

Before using FAR initiate SCP session at one or both of the FAR panels.

You're now connected to the same host system with full featured command line support. Now you can use both WIN32 cmd line apps and linux console apps.

Enjoy full featured FAR with command line support It doesn't look right but it works.

PS if you're using sudo, change sudo bash in the session's config to access your system with root privileges or allow root logins.

Did I read that correctly? You want to access Linux root privileges from Wine?

Jim

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:55 am

C3PO wrote:Unfortunately there is nothing close to FAR on *NIX platform I used about 10 different file managers, MC included and they all suck compared to FAR.

You are welcome to make them better. Aside from few things MC as much if not more powerful then Far, especially editor.

FAR won't ever be the right solution for *NIX. It doesn't understand many things, and doesn't get the "first person view" on what's going on with the system. But will have to look through Wine's goggles.

The only people who want to use Far on *NIX are ones who do not understand system well enough. There are things that Far just can't do (just to name major problems):
- Set correct file permissions
- Change group/ownership of files
- Create/show/edit symlinks
- Properly handle special files
- Correctly understand *NIX paths
- Handle multiple files with the same name but different case (eg "file" and "File" and "FILE")

C3PO · Post by **C3PO** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:36 am

Jim Hall wrote:
Did I read that correctly? You want to access Linux root privileges from Wine?

Jim

Not exactly.

Far runs console programs in background and displays the results. It can change file attributes and file owners. But running through wine on UNIX system, it cannot display output of linux commands|console programs in the background neither can it change file attributes, owners etc.

But, FAR has WinSCP plugin which integrates FAR panel on the remote host file system. Through that plugin you can run unix console programs on a remote host and see the results in FAR, you can all so change file attributes, rename file, change file owner, recursively or not using file native interface integrated in FAR.

If you connect to a local host using WinSCP plugin from FAR running under WINE you get full functionality of FAR panels and interfaces like it's a native UNIX application. i.e. you can run commands and the results you can access file attributes with FAR interface, rename, set use a full range of file operations.

C3PO · Post by **C3PO** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:51 am

vitamin wrote: FAR won't ever be the right solution for *NIX. It doesn't understand many things, and doesn't get the "first person view" on what's going on with the system. But will have to look through Wine's goggles.

Could you clarify what first person view in terms of MC means?

vitamin wrote: The only people who want to use Far on *NIX are ones who do not understand system well enough. There are things that Far just can't do (just to name major problems):
- Set correct file permissions

Wong it can do it.

vitamin wrote: - Change group/ownership of files

Wrong it can it.

vitamin wrote: - Create/show/edit symlinks

Again not true.

vitamin wrote: - Properly handle special files
- Correctly understand *NIX paths
- Handle multiple files with the same name but different case (eg "file" and "File" and "FILE")

[/quote]

You're wrong. It can do it under WINE.

If I wrote what MC cannot do compared to far that would take about 5 pages. Anyway this is WINE forum, WINE is windows emulator for people who wants to run WIN programs on LINUX.

I've been programming longer than you think and the only criteria for me is the development speed - an effectiveness. I want an integrated customizable console solution for my tasks, which is not messed with the key shortcuts and could be expandable with plugins. I don't want to open different programs run commands in 5 different console edit the several files with 5 instances of MC I want one program which can do it all. As most of the time I deal with files and remote hosts I want an extremely sophisticated and fast file manager - and that is precisely what FAR is.

C3PO · Post by **C3PO** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:24 am

Jim Hall wrote:
Did I read that correctly? You want to access Linux root privileges from Wine?

Jim

And YES - with FAR you can run each panel under different linux user. You can be root at the left and JimHall at the right panel. You can restart daemons at the left and program your apps at the left. And you can edit as many files on your right or left panels as you wish, convert file encodings, type text using any encoding, edit ANY file no matter how huge it is, save text files in different UNIX and Windows formats, automatic encoding detection, edit files in hex modes, use ascii chart, fuse remote servers to your control panel and that all takes only a few keystrokes and about 2 seconds of your time, you can integrate FTP server at one panel and have SCP panel to whihq.org, copying files from one server to another. And that all is FAST and takes no time to setup and use.

C3PO · Post by **C3PO** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:28 am

And I do mean edit as many files as you wish _at the same time_ in one FAR instance. You can put all your project CPP files in FAR and easily switch between them.

Far is actually an amazingly powerful, customizable and easy to understand IDE which I miss on Linux very much. MC is not like that at all, it's just a file manager for newbies.

Martin Gregorie · Post by **Martin Gregorie** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:05 am

On Mon, 2011-09-05 at 10:24 -0500, C3PO wrote:

Jim Hall wrote:

Did I read that correctly? You want to access Linux root privileges from Wine?

Jim
And YES - with FAR you can run each panel under different linux user.
You can be root at the left and JimHall at the right panel. You can
restart daemons at the left and program your apps at the left. And
you can edit as many files on your right or left panels as you wish,
convert file encodings, type text using any encoding, edit ANY file no
matter how huge it is, save text files in different UNIX and Windows
formats, automatic encoding detection, edit files in hex modes, use
ascii chart, fuse remote servers to your control panel and that all
takes only a few keystrokes and about 2 seconds of your time, you can
integrate FTP server at one panel and have SCP panel to whihq.org,
copying files from one server to another. And that all is FAST and
takes no time to setup and use.

Sounds like as good a way of getting pwned as any. At least with 'su' or
better, 'sudo', you'll know exactly when root access is at risk.

Martin

C3PO · Post by **C3PO** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:37 am

Martin Gregorie wrote:
Sounds like as good a way of getting pwned as any. At least with 'su' or
better, 'sudo', you'll know exactly when root access is at risk.

Martin

No risk at all, you got to tell far what user you want to use to open a panel first (you have to login). You can either store password with FAR or type in your password before opening a panel. You all so see what user is used on each panel and how you want your panel to serve you (can you execute commands or just edit|view files). You can all so tell far to use sudo to open a panel.

As to the usability - can you give any reason why MC won't show different commands (F1-F10) when ALT is hold or SHIFT is hold or CTL+ALT is hold - why it won't change command options at the bottom of the screen? It doesn't make sense. In FAR holding shift - gives you an alternative command set, holding ALT+SHIFT - another, CTL - another so everything is self - evident. It's just a small example.

FAR is built with this intuitive self explaining interface which makes it so easy to handle, it's light and fast. FAR could be extended with plugins over the years a lot of people contributed to FAR and you can integrate in far things like browsing registry (on windows). FAR supports HTTP protocol as well. You can open a site in it's left panel. It can highlight syntax of any text file, check spells, THOUSANDS of plugins.

Take a look
http://plugring.farmanager.com/index.php?l=en

And far itself is just a convenient shell it isn't focused on syntax highlight or spell it just provides a convenient interface. It's has very much the spirit of GNU software and if it only was designed for UNIX in the first place it would be the N1 choice of any UX user.

I programmed a lot of soft in this shell it is so fast so universal so reliable I miss it a lot on NIX platform.

The only design problem of FAR is it's internal structure. If you look into the sources you'll see that it cannot be easily ported on linux with all the plugins.

I need WINE only for FAR and The BAT. The Bat is another program which is not available on Linux....

Martin Gregorie · Post by **Martin Gregorie** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:35 pm

On Mon, 2011-09-05 at 11:37 -0500, C3PO wrote:

Martin Gregorie wrote:

Sounds like as good a way of getting pwned as any. At least with 'su' or
better, 'sudo', you'll know exactly when root access is at risk.

You can either store password with FAR

There's an avoidable risk for a start: None of my login passwords, let
alone those for root, are written down anywhere. That includes not
holding them as data in scripts, config files or literals in programs.

With the way of working you seem to be describing it seems to me
entirely too easy to leave a root access path open by mistake when you
should not have done so. Worse yet, by using a Wine app for cross-user
access you're just providing a highway for Windows malware to spread
from your own sandbox into other user's space or into root.

As to the usability - can you give any reason why MC won't show
different commands

Wouldn't have a clue: I don't use it and don't use Nautilus all that
much either. Neither do anything I can't to quicker and better via one
or more terminal windows regardless of what machine I happen to be
running stuff on. Graphical displays? Years ago I enabled X11 forwarding
for ssh and have propagated that configuration forward through the last
15 Fedora versions. So it doesn't matter which host I start a graphical
program on: I see its GUI on the screen in front of me.

In any case, if you're serious about running graphical programs on
remote hosts you're probably better off using VNC. Have you looked at
that yet?

Martin

C3PO · Post by **C3PO** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:19 pm

Martin Gregorie wrote: In any case, if you're serious about running graphical programs on
remote hosts you're probably better off using VNC. Have you looked at
that yet?

Martin

Thanks for the reply.

It's not about graphical programs, FAR integrates a terminal like you're using Putty in background of your panels (Pressing Ctrl-O shows that background) FAR's panel could be linked to a remote host as well as to the local filesystem. It's one of the features.

I can access inux box with RDP. Far is not about that. Thanks for a tip though. Imagine like you have a file manager which can map anything in it's control panels. Editor - yes, syntax highlight - sure, codpage convertor - why not, remote host - of course . CVS - definitely. It's an unltimate solution for a developers which saves a lot lot of time. You don't need anything else while you're working in FAR

Another way of thinking about far... imagine that all KDE AND linux terminal functions are integrated in a text manager, just two panels with files and buttons. It rather completes the terminal to the full scale text user interface to the host and remote system.

You could close windows' task manager and do the same with FAR about 10 times faster then with windows GUI.

It would be a swiss knife tool for Linux if it's ever ported to it.

oiaohm · Post by **oiaohm** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:03 pm

C3PO there are quite a few file managers for Linux.

But when I read Far it reminds me of the evil god of editors emacs own filemanager Dired.

"Another way of thinking about far... imagine that all KDE AND linux terminal functions are integrated in a text manager, just two panels with files and buttons. It rather completes the terminal to the full scale text user interface to the host and remote system. " Yep emacs Dired

emacs is a ide of super scary. Not that I use it much.
And its competitor http://vifm.sourceforge.net/.

Emacs can have its keymap and everything else customized.

Most times I have no need for an item like emacs.

C3PO FAR running in wine is not ideal. Since wine will not handle permissions perfectly right.

midnight-commander is quite a reasonable all rounder.

Also something you missed about KDE filemanagers and most Linux filemangers. Is kde file-managers all of them contain a view option to display a terminal. F4 in Dolphin opens up a terminal at your current location so you can type in any command line option your require performed. So file-manager with 100 percent access to all terminal features is perfectly normal.

fishshell exists for a reason when you learn the command line it can do a lot of things quicky.

Linux basically has many swiss knife tools.

Also for developers I normally go kdevelop since it integrates lots of support. Basically you sound like you are treating FAR in the same way I treat my development IDEs under Linux. Advantage the tools built for development have a lot of other nice wizards and code transformation features.

CVS is a mostly dead revision system. You need to move up to svn or git or something else in that class.

C3PO items like kdevelop and emacs are not commonly found on Windows. So people coming from windows are normally using filemanagers to hack over areas that are better sorted by proper working ides.

C3PO · Post by **C3PO** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:26 am

oiaohm wrote:C3PO there are quite a few file managers for Linux.

But when I read Far it reminds me of the evil god of editors emacs own filemanager Dired.

Now thank you for the useful tip. I'll give emacs a try. It's not a console like FAR and the shortcuts are somewhat alien but as far as I can see it's concept is close to FAR.

oiaohm wrote: "Another way of thinking about far... imagine that all KDE AND linux terminal functions are integrated in a text manager, just two panels with files and buttons. It rather completes the terminal to the full scale text user interface to the host and remote system. " Yep emacs Dired

emacs is a ide of super scary. Not that I use it much.
And its competitor http://vifm.sourceforge.net/.

Emacs can have its keymap and everything else customized.

Most times I have no need for an item like emacs.

Thanks!

oiaohm wrote: C3PO FAR running in wine is not ideal. Since wine will not handle permissions perfectly right.

It does handle permission in the very same way as MC or any linux native applications you can set linux style file permissions. You just need a trick to make it work.

oiaohm wrote:
midnight-commander is quite a reasonable all rounder.

Also something you missed about KDE filemanagers and most Linux filemangers. Is kde file-managers all of them contain a view option to display a terminal. F4 in Dolphin opens up a terminal at your current location so you can type in any command line option your require performed. So file-manager with 100 percent access to all terminal features is perfectly normal.

Now how you're going place a file system of a foreign host in the right Dolphin's panel? You got to go and mount it and if you have about 20 hosts which you now have to edit you will spend most of your time to interface, moving the mouse, instead of actually doing something. I strongly dislike GUI file managers because they spend so much of my time. Thanks for F4 tip, it's useful. Now imagine I want to see file permissions in the Dolphin Ctl+1 - no file permissions Ctl+2 - no file permissions. Do I have to right click on each file just to see what permissions it has? If I have about 100 files of which 20 have to be changed I would have to click though all of them or use command line.

I want to open file and automatically see text in the encoding it's in, and edit it in this encoding and see highlight syntax. How? Again I got to do something special to make it work.

Now a trivial task - I want to open a selected Dolphin folder in another Dolphin forking from the parent Dolphin not using MOUSE? How? Aha, again I have to grab the mouse move it to the folder right click and the choose Open in New Window

Open F4 terminal how are you going to place the full path to the file from the directory tree above to the console to start a command with this as a parameter not using mouse? Again you have to do special staff.

And so on, and so on and on. I have to do thousands of operations like these in a day so most of the time I will have to spend on mouse moving and clicking which is slow. It's really not worth using these tools because they take your life away from you wasting your time on interface glitches.
[/quote]

oiaohm wrote:
fishshell exists for a reason when you learn the command line it can do a lot of things quicky.

Linux basically has many swiss knife tools.

Also for developers I normally go kdevelop since it integrates lots of support. Basically you sound like you are treating FAR in the same way I treat my development IDEs under Linux. Advantage the tools built for development have a lot of other nice wizards and code transformation features.

CVS is a mostly dead revision system. You need to move up to svn or git or something else in that class.

C3PO items like kdevelop and emacs are not commonly found on Windows. So people coming from windows are normally using filemanagers to hack over areas that are better sorted by proper working ides.

Well FAR at least is not worse than EMAC. And Kdevelop is no better than VS. The great advantage of FAR is the shortcuts, you can learn them while you use it, they're logical, some shortcuts of the managers I saw were developed like - these keys aren't used yet, let's use them for moving blocks.

Thanks for the tips!

oiaohm · Post by **oiaohm** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:11 am

C3PO Little issue the native ones handle acl perfectly fine if you have it enabled. Going ssh normally you run into hell on acl enabled filesystems.

Detail mode ctrl+2 can be made display file permissions.

alt+v alt+a then set what you want displayed in detailed.

All kde based filemangers for particular connections supports URL. Like a lot of other Linux file managers if it something it URL supports you don't need to mount it. Yes smb shares can be url accessed from Dolphin without having to mount them and the like.

Like fish://user@host/path is a valid url/path in dolphin to open up a ssh link to host and open path on that link. smb:// can take you to a windows server. ftp://takes you to a ftp server. No manual mounting required just provide a url that can be stored in places and dolphin does everything else. Basically kde based file managers its type url and go for foreign hosts.

You seam to have a bad ideas of what Linux filemanagers are limited from doing.

Yes there is a reason why F6 will bring up the editable location bar in dolphin and allow you to type a path in.

Open in a new window is possible to do without mouse. Same with all other options inside Dolphin. cntrl-N for new window. Mind you I more use cntrl-T for new tab.

Using the Linux file managers are different to far. We have so many due to the different styles of people. Please remember Dolphin is a pretty basic by Linux standards. This is the issue a basic Linux filemanager does far more than the crap MS serves up by default.

"I want to open file and automatically see text in the encoding it's in, and edit it in this encoding and see highlight syntax. How? Again I got to do something special to make it work. " Again this is not understanding linux.

kate and kwrite the kde editors supports detect text encoding documents it also highlight syntax. That feature is inside Kdevelop.

In fact Kdevelop also supports direct url paths. Really once you start using KDE stuff to what they are designed todo by default like like .

Krusader is one of the more advanced KDE file-managers. Yes fish:// and smb:// and ftp:// and many other as standard for all KDE applications. So yes can open up kwrite and directly open, edit and save a file on a ftp or smb or fish(ssh) and many other protocols. Its even possible to save as from them to many different protocals.

This is where things go badly wrong with Far. Far presumes the Linux applications are stupid because most Windows programs are stupid. What in fact most Linux programs are network aware. Most are able to operate network transparent.

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:20 am

C3PO wrote:Could you clarify what first person view in terms of MC means?

FAR doesn't talk directly to file system, but via Wine. It can not see the difference between regular file symlink, hardlink, pipe, character device.

C3PO wrote:
vitamin wrote:- Set correct file permissions
Wong it can do it.

I'd like to see you set 04755 permission on a file or 01777 on a directory.

C3PO wrote:
vitamin wrote:- Change group/ownership of files
Wrong it can it.

Wine doesn't read system users and groups. Without it you can't set correct ownership. But even aside from that, try setting a file owner to a specific UID or group to some GID.

C3PO wrote:
vitamin wrote: - Create/show/edit symlinks
Again not true.

Windows' symlinks have nothing to do with *NIX symlinks. Don't mix the two.

C3PO wrote:
vitamin wrote: - Properly handle special files
- Correctly understand *NIX paths
- Handle multiple files with the same name but different case (eg "file" and "File" and "FILE")
You're wrong. It can do it under WINE.

What Wine can't FAR can't. And trust me, Wine can't do and won't do lots of things. As an example Wine won't show you symlinks if they point to a parent directory...

The whole reason I'm trying to tell you not to use FAR for system administration, or file operations because you will break your system. Regular shell will be better then FAR.

oiaohm · Post by **oiaohm** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:38 am

vitamin he is using WinSCP plugin for FAR to get around wine limitations.

This is particularly stupid. Since it requires running ssh when not required. Also WinSCP does not show everything that can be hiding in permissions on a Linux system.

Historic problem person move to Linux and is not willing to let go of applications. So presumes Linux applications cannot do the job.

WinSCP does not let you see real drives and other important things.

Basically setting self up for trouble. If FAR is liked so much port it basically.

Running a filemanager inside wine to manage Linux is foolish.

C3PO · Post by **C3PO** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:39 pm

oiaohm wrote:vitamin he is using WinSCP plugin for FAR to get around wine limitations.

This is particularly stupid. Since it requires running ssh when not required. Also WinSCP does not show everything that can be hiding in permissions on a Linux system.

Ya think? Of course spending about 0.01% of PC resources which any of us have for an extra SSH connection is more stupid than spending life time which is somehow we all have limits for. I'm waking up seeing how I have exhausted electrons in p-n transducers of my motherboard.

oiaohm wrote: Historic problem person move to Linux and is not willing to let go of applications. So presumes Linux applications cannot do the job.

I'm not MOVING to linux I've been using it for 7 years in text modes.

oiaohm wrote: WinSCP does not let you see real drives and other important things.

I don't need to see real drives when I use FAR I need to use far to manage UNIX.

oiaohm wrote: Basically setting self up for trouble. If FAR is liked so much port it basically.

Not a trouble, just for a walk - all the job is done so fast.
May be someday! I admit of all tasks - porting FAR is most tempting for me.

oiaohm wrote: Running a filemanager inside wine to manage Linux is foolish.

FAR is not just a filemanager. OK it's just a matter of opinion.

Thanks for helping.