Status of Wine64 on OSX?

[asiga]

Hi,

I know Wine64 is still experimental, and I've read threads from last Summer stating that Wine64 won't build nor run on OSX at this time.

However, Wine64 would be really useful for me on OSX, because I build small simple apps for both win32 and win64 mode, and being able to crosscompile and run them from OSX would be a great time saver for me.

So, what's the status of Wine64 on OSX? Will it run soon? Is there somebody working at it?

Thanks a lot!

[Alexandre Julliard]

"asiga" <[email protected]> writes:

Hi,

I know Wine64 is still experimental, and I've read threads from last Summer stating that Wine64 won't build nor run on OSX at this time.

However, Wine64 would be really useful for me on OSX, because I build small simple apps for both win32 and win64 mode, and being able to crosscompile and run them from OSX would be a great time saver for me.

So, what's the status of Wine64 on OSX? Will it run soon? Is there somebody working at it?

It's not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. It requires support in
the kernel and the compiler, and there's no evidence that Apple is going
to do this. There are also some tricky ABI incompatibilities.

--
Alexandre Julliard
[email protected]

[asiga]

"asiga" <[email protected]> writes:

Hi,

I know Wine64 is still experimental, and I've read threads from last Summer stating that Wine64 won't build nor run on OSX at this time.

However, Wine64 would be really useful for me on OSX, because I build small simple apps for both win32 and win64 mode, and being able to crosscompile and run them from OSX would be a great time saver for me.

So, what's the status of Wine64 on OSX? Will it run soon? Is there somebody working at it?

It's not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. It requires support in
the kernel and the compiler, and there's no evidence that Apple is going
to do this. There are also some tricky ABI incompatibilities.

--
Alexandre Julliard
[email protected]

Well, I don't think those are the real causes, as it's possible to virtualize 64 bit OSs on OSX. I know WINE is not a virtualized OS, but a binary compatibility layer, but, however, I'm pretty sure that if Wine was a Mac-centered project, Wine64 would build and run. Note that I'm not blaming anybody, I'm just saying that the real cause is not the OSX kernel, but the lack of user interest in Wine64 for Mac.

[Charles Davis]

On 6/1/11 11:44 AM, asiga wrote:

Alexandre Julliard wrote:

"asiga" <[email protected]> writes:

Hi,

I know Wine64 is still experimental, and I've read threads from last Summer stating that Wine64 won't build nor run on OSX at this time.

However, Wine64 would be really useful for me on OSX, because I build small simple apps for both win32 and win64 mode, and being able to crosscompile and run them from OSX would be a great time saver for me.

So, what's the status of Wine64 on OSX? Will it run soon? Is there somebody working at it?

It's not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. It requires support in
the kernel and the compiler, and there's no evidence that Apple is going
to do this. There are also some tricky ABI incompatibilities.

--
Alexandre Julliard
[email protected]

Well, I don't think those are the real causes, as it's possible to virtualize 64 bit OSs on OSX. I know WINE is not a virtualized OS, but a binary compatibility layer, but, however, I'm pretty sure that if Wine was a Mac-centered project, Wine64 would build and run. Note that I'm not blaming anybody, I'm just saying that the real cause is not the OSX kernel, but the lack of user interest in Wine64 for Mac.

And I say it *is* a lack of kernel support. I would know, because I
looked into this. These are the exact problems that prevent Wine64 from
running on Mac OS X:
- There is no way to set the GS base MSR. Wine needs it for the TEB.
- Speaking of GS, it's already being used by the System Library for
TLS--a direct violation of the System V ABI (to which Apple claims Mac
OS X conforms).
- Clang (which is already beginning to replace GCC as the compiler of
choice on Mac) does not yet support the ms_abi and sysv_abi attributes.
I filed http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=9148 to keep track of that.
- Apple GCC is stuck at version 4.2.1, because Apple fears/hates GPLv3.
So Apple GCC is no longer supported, and will thus never support the
ms_abi and sysv_abi attributes.

I filed Radar 9269783 (note: Apple radar bugs aren't public), and Apple
has not responded yet. I don't think they're interested in this right now.

Chip

[asiga]

And I say it *is* a lack of kernel support.

So, do you firmly believe it's impossible to run a 64bit windows executable from OSX? I think it's possible, but... well, anyway, the question I asked is answered (Wine64 doesn't run on OSX), so don't mind.

[Charles Davis]

On 6/1/11 3:05 PM, asiga wrote:

Charles Davis wrote:

And I say it *is* a lack of kernel support.

So, do you firmly believe it's impossible to run a 64bit windows executable from OSX?

Right now, I do. At least, under Wine it's impossible. You could
theoretically run one under a VM, but VMs use kexts (and an entire copy
of Windows!) to get around the problems I listed.

Chip

[sq123456]

I also think people who should not be the real reason!!
As for what it is and I can say

[ischou]

You're welcome to try to build 64-bit Wine on OSX (as I have) and you will eventually come to some assembler code that no version of binutils for OSX is willing to compile because those instructions are not supported on OSX.

The next question you'll probably ask is whether its possible to rewrite those instructions using other instructions. I don't know anything about assembly, but the answer appears to be no.

[jjmckenzie]

On 6/2/11, ischou <[email protected]> wrote:

You're welcome to try to build 64-bit Wine on OSX (as I have) and you will
eventually come to some assembler code that no version of binutils for OSX
is willing to compile because those instructions are not supported on OSX.

The next question you'll probably ask is whether its possible to rewrite
those instructions using other instructions. I don't know anything about
assembly, but the answer appears to be no.

If we knew what that code did on PC platforms, we just might be able
to do it. Without that knowledge, it would be just about impossible.
I have not looked at the code, so I cannot comment further.

[asiga]

I understand the huge effort done by the wine team, and I'm very grateful because I can run win32 apps on OSX. As said, I'd also like to run win64 but I understand the difficulties, so don't worry, and let's hope someday it will be possible to run win64.

[G33kX]

On 6/1/11 11:44 AM, asiga wrote:

Alexandre Julliard wrote:

"asiga" <[email protected]> writes:

It's not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. It requires support in
the kernel and the compiler, and there's no evidence that Apple is going
to do this. There are also some tricky ABI incompatibilities.

--
Alexandre Julliard
[email protected]

Well, I don't think those are the real causes, as it's possible to virtualize 64 bit OSs on OSX. I know WINE is not a virtualized OS, but a binary compatibility layer, but, however, I'm pretty sure that if Wine was a Mac-centered project, Wine64 would build and run. Note that I'm not blaming anybody, I'm just saying that the real cause is not the OSX kernel, but the lack of user interest in Wine64 for Mac.

And I say it *is* a lack of kernel support. I would know, because I
looked into this. These are the exact problems that prevent Wine64 from
running on Mac OS X:
- There is no way to set the GS base MSR. Wine needs it for the TEB.
- Speaking of GS, it's already being used by the System Library for
TLS--a direct violation of the System V ABI (to which Apple claims Mac
OS X conforms).
- Clang (which is already beginning to replace GCC as the compiler of
choice on Mac) does not yet support the ms_abi and sysv_abi attributes.
I filed http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=9148 to keep track of that.
- Apple GCC is stuck at version 4.2.1, because Apple fears/hates GPLv3.
So Apple GCC is no longer supported, and will thus never support the
ms_abi and sysv_abi attributes.

I filed Radar 9269783 (note: Apple radar bugs aren't public), and Apple
has not responded yet. I don't think they're interested in this right now.

Chip

I am pretty computer savvy but i did not understand half the things you said I do not need granny language, but could you simplify it a little?