Reporting a Complaint

alienjon · Post by **alienjon** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:00 pm

I'm sorry my first post is along these lines, but I recently made a bug report regarding a game running in Wine and was, in rather unfriendly words, informed that I had posted in an incorrect bug report by a developer. I subsequently started a new bug report for the problem and was replied to by that same developer from the first bug. He replied in more, rather unfriendly, terms and essentially brushed off my replies to his queries and abruptly closed the bug. I understand what he is trying to say to me (in terms of what I should do to provide more helpful information in a bug report) but I am particularly disheartened by the inappropriate and distasteful tone and wording with which he replied to me. My question is, then, where and to whom could I file a complaint regarding this individual's behavior in Wine's bugzilla?

alienjon · Post by **alienjon** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:59 pm

Sorry for a double-post here, but a bit more digging through wine's pages showed me this page: http://wiki.winehq.org/WhosWho

I just picked one of the admins at the top to send an e-mail to, but if someone knows of a better way to reach the correct people, I'd very much appreciate it

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:02 am

Bug links please.

alienjon · Post by **alienjon** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:15 am

My apologies. It was just my posting this is in regards to (not the first one I had not initiated) Here's that link: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18762

In follow-up, I was fortunate and heard back from the administrator I e-mailed last night (from the link I mentioned in the last post). So I think I got this to whom I had hoped.

Thank you very much for the follow-up, however.

James McKenzie · Post by **James McKenzie** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:04 pm

alienjon wrote:

I'm sorry my first post is along these lines, but I recently made a bug report regarding a game running in Wine and was, in rather unfriendly words, informed that I had posted in an incorrect bug report by a developer. I subsequently started a new bug report for the problem and was replied to by that same developer from the first bug. He replied in more, rather unfriendly, terms and essentially brushed off my replies to his queries and abruptly closed the bug. I understand what he is trying to say to me (in terms of what I should do to provide more helpful information in a bug report) but I am particularly disheartened by the inappropriate and distasteful tone and wording with which he replied to me. My question is, then, where and to whom could I file a complaint regarding this individual's behavior in Wine's bugzilla?

The person who responded to your bug was CORRECT in his statement. You
have to build Wine with all dependencies fulfilled or you will have
problems.

Now, what was the problem?

Have you built Wine with all dependencies or downloaded a copy with them?

What video card and drivers are you using?

What is the error you are receiving from Direct X as it comes with Wine
(if you have to use Direct X from Microsoft to satisfy a requirement,
search, throughly BugZilla before reporting ANY bugs on DirectX as there
are many of them.)

Please keep in mind that I report bugs for MacOSX and get the same
treatment because hal does not exist for it. However, a patched libhal
does and that is what I have to use to build Wine with.

James McKenzie

John Drescher · Post by **John Drescher** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:08 pm

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 10:03 PM, James
McKenzie<[email protected]> wrote:

alienjon wrote:
I'm sorry my first post is along these lines, but I recently made a bug report regarding a game running in Wine and was, in rather unfriendly words, informed that I had posted in an incorrect bug report by a developer. I subsequently started a new bug report for the problem and was replied to by that same developer from the first bug. He replied in more, rather unfriendly, terms and essentially brushed off my replies to his queries and abruptly closed the bug. I understand what he is trying to say to me (in terms of what I should do to provide more helpful information in a bug report) but I am particularly disheartened by the inappropriate and distasteful tone and wording with which he replied to me. My question is, then, where and to whom could I file a complaint regarding this individual's behavior in Wine's bugzilla?

The person who responded to your bug was CORRECT in his statement. You
have to build Wine with all dependencies fulfilled or you will have
problems.

Now, what was the problem?

Have you built Wine with all dependencies or downloaded a copy with them?

Gentoo (source based distribution) allows you to build wine from
source without things like ldap support.

Isn't there options to configure wine and build it from source without
ldap and other parts?

John

--
John M. Drescher

James McKenzie · Post by **James McKenzie** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:08 pm

alienjon wrote:

My apologies. It was just my posting this is in regards to (not the first one I had not initiated) Here's that link: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18762 (http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18762)

In follow-up, I was fortunate and heard back from the administrator I e-mailed last night (from the link I mentioned in the last post). So I think I got this to whom I had hoped.

Thank you very much for the follow-up, however.

As a follow up to this message: Probably not. You did report an
invalid bug. Vitally closed it properly. Vitally is cold, brutal and
very good at what he does. And yes, I've worked with this individual
for a long time. I've even been told a thing or two, but I've also
learned that short and to the point is a good thing. You are welcome to
file the bug, again, after getting/building a complete Wine with all
dependencies met. If you need a DirectX function, state it in the bug
report.

James McKenzie

James McKenzie · Post by **James McKenzie** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:18 pm

John Drescher wrote:

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 10:03 PM, James
McKenzie<[email protected]> wrote:

alienjon wrote:

I'm sorry my first post is along these lines, but I recently made a bug report regarding a game running in Wine and was, in rather unfriendly words, informed that I had posted in an incorrect bug report by a developer. I subsequently started a new bug report for the problem and was replied to by that same developer from the first bug. He replied in more, rather unfriendly, terms and essentially brushed off my replies to his queries and abruptly closed the bug. I understand what he is trying to say to me (in terms of what I should do to provide more helpful information in a bug report) but I am particularly disheartened by the inappropriate and distasteful tone and wording with which he replied to me. My question is, then, where and to whom could I file a complaint regarding this individual's behavior in Wine's bugzilla?

The person who responded to your bug was CORRECT in his statement. You
have to build Wine with all dependencies fulfilled or you will have
problems.

Now, what was the problem?

Have you built Wine with all dependencies or downloaded a copy with them?

Gentoo (source based distribution) allows you to build wine from
source without things like ldap support.

Isn't there options to configure wine and build it from source without
ldap and other parts?

Yes, you can build Wine without many options, but if you want to report
a bug, it has to have all of the options built or some functions may not
work properly. I've been the victim of this with other programs.

James McKenzie

John Drescher · Post by **John Drescher** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:26 pm

Gentoo (source based distribution) allows you to build wine from
source without things like ldap support.

Isn't there options to configure wine and build it from source without
ldap and other parts?

Yes, you can build Wine without many options, but if you want to report
a bug, it has to have all of the options built or some functions may not
work properly. I've been the victim of this with other programs.

Originally I did not understand how this was a case of missing
dependency when configure was being used to disable optional wine
code. However your explanation makes sense.

For the OP these options most likely can be applied to wine with
limited impact on the rest of the system by placing them into

/etc/portage/package.use for app-emulation/wine only. Instead of
adding the USE flags to the /etc/make.conf

John

alienjon · Post by **alienjon** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:35 pm

The person who responded to your bug was CORRECT in his statement. You
have to build Wine with all dependencies fulfilled or you will have
problems.

I understand, and don't necessarily disagree with what he was trying to say, but the problem was the tone and words he used to express himself. At this point I have heard back from an administrator and do not wish to pursue the complaint farther (I consider the issue 'registered', if you will, and do not wish to bring potentially unwarrented attention towards this developer)

However, as for the reason for the post, I disagree that compiling wine to include libgphoto2 or the other library (I can't remember it off the top of my head) will fix the problem or is necessary for me to solve the problem, as another individual (also using Wine with identical USE-flags in a Gentoo-64 environment) is able to run the program rather well (as s/he reports)

Regardless of that, as I am currently running Wine in a 64bit environment and, to get all of these required 32bit requirenments I would need to chroot into a 32bit environment, compile all the requirenments (as well as any requirenments for them), potentially patch wine several times (as you had indicated) and then compile Wine itself.

Personally, as the only individual seemingly with this exact problem (insofar as I've found) it is much easier for me to just reboot into XP and play the game from there rather than go through all this work for something I don't honestly think will help the problem (although, to be honest, I'm also concerned that in creating a chrooted environment I may compromise my system (not that it isn't safe - I really don't know if it is or isn't) but knowing my luck I'd probably do something stupid in the process

)

BUT, that's assuming I'd be compiling. Running on Gentoo, I automatically assume 'build from source'. However, you mention there being binary copies of Wine with its dependencies I could try? If so, I'd definitely be interested in testing that way (much safer, in my opinion, and I would definitely be interested in testing that way) Where might I find those?

Additionally, I am using a GeForce 7600GS card with the latest drivers (180.60, I believe - I'm not in front of it right now, but it's definitely the latest) The error itself is:

Code: Select all

err:ntdll:RtlpWaitForCriticalSection section 0x7e114810 "d3d9_main.c: d3d9_cs"
wait timed out in thread 001f, blocked by 0009, retrying (60 sec)

Definitely a DirectX-related issue (and, from what I can tell, related to thread locking) I HAVE found this error via Google searches, but none of the problems have matched mine (in terms of effects or for this specific game (Supreme Commander) and a good number of them have tried things that resolved the problem for them, but not for me.

With ALL that being said, I have now gotten this post WAY off topic. Should I start a new one to keep these 2 topics separated?

alienjon · Post by **alienjon** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:42 pm

/etc/portage/package.use for app-emulation/wine only. Instead of
adding the USE flags to the /etc/make.conf

True, but the remaining packages are not USE-flag based (or are disabled as USE flags). I already have everything enabled for Wine that Gentoo allows by default. That being said, I will try to recompile with the two libraries included (regardless of the USE flags) and see (hope) if that will fulfill the requirenments for wine. The problem I've had there is that I can't identify the package for one of them: libcapi20

As of right now I just haven't had the time yet to follow up with this greatly (and the dev closed it before I had much of a chance to look into it farther, which is also part of the complaint)

alienjon · Post by **alienjon** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:57 pm

you mention there being binary copies of Wine

(Yes, I'm quoting myself here :-p) I just realized I sounded like an idiot in saying this. I know there's the Wine download page, but the only non-distro based download is source, not binary. Thats what I was thinking of when I stated this (unless you mean one of the other downloads and just use it in my environment)

James McKenzie · Post by **James McKenzie** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:29 pm

alienjon wrote:

Additionally, I am using a GeForce 7600GS card with the latest drivers (180.60, I believe - I'm not in front of it right now, but it's definitely the latest) The error itself is:

Code:
err:ntdll:RtlpWaitForCriticalSection section 0x7e114810 "d3d9_main.c: d3d9_cs"
wait timed out in thread 001f, blocked by 0009, retrying (60 sec)

This is a well known problem with locking, not necessarily with
DirectX. I think there already is a bug in Bugzilla for this.

Definitely a DirectX-related issue (and, from what I can tell, related to thread locking) I HAVE found this error via Google searches, but none of the problems have matched mine (in terms of effects or for this specific game (Supreme Commander) and a good number of them have tried things that resolved the problem for them, but not for me.

I would suggest that this be added to an existing thread locking bug.
If you are incorrect, one of the bug triage folks will let you know,
hopefully in a manner that makes sense. Some problems affect multiple
programs in multiple places. It is amazing that I had a threadlocking
error that affected several areas of Wine. One bug fix eliminated all
of the problems.

If you wish, you can start a new thread with the bug issue as the topic
and see what others have to say about it.

James McKenzie
(not a moderator nor admin.)

alienjon · Post by **alienjon** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:34 pm

I think there already is a bug in Bugzilla for this.

May I trouble you for some help in locating this bug? I had actually initially posted the problem in a bug report that looked (to me) as if it were spot on to my problem, but I was informed by a dev there that I was incorrect and right now I'm just not sure.

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:54 pm

alienjon wrote:I understand, and don't necessarily disagree with what he was trying to say, but the problem was the tone and words he used to express himself. At this point I have heard back from an administrator and do not wish to pursue the complaint farther (I consider the issue 'registered', if you will, and do not wish to bring potentially unwarrented attention towards this developer)

The fact that your distro's default configuration is incomplete - missing _major_ parts, like dbus, gnutls, lcms, libgphoto2 enough to send your report downstream to gentoo. Especially considering their POV on 32-bit apps in 64-bit distro.

If you think that part "X" of Wine is not required, I'd agree with you only when you show me any Windows version with that part "X" absent. Or a guarantee that all developers in the world that write for Windows don't use this part "X" except for exactly what it's intended for. Considering that MSDN had never said "don't use this API unless you using X" anything purposely removed from Wine is an invalid configuration.

alienjon wrote:However, as for the reason for the post, I disagree that compiling wine to include libgphoto2 or the other library (I can't remember it off the top of my head) will fix the problem or is necessary for me to solve the problem, as another individual (also using Wine with identical USE-flags in a Gentoo-64 environment) is able to run the program rather well (as s/he reports)

This is all well and good, but you haven't mentioned what video drivers you have and what card and drivers your friend use.

John Drescher · Post by **John Drescher** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:56 pm

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:54 PM, vitamin<[email protected]> wrote:

alienjon wrote:
I understand, and don't necessarily disagree with what he was trying to say, but the problem was the tone and words he used to express himself. At this point I have heard back from an administrator and do not wish to pursue the complaint farther (I consider the issue 'registered', if you will, and do not wish to bring potentially unwarrented attention towards this developer)
The fact that your distro's default configuration is incomplete - missing _major_ parts, like dbus, gnutls, lcms, libgphoto2 enough to send your report downstream to gentoo. Especially considering their POV on 32-bit apps in 64-bit distro.

Gentoo does have support for dbus, lcms and gnutls in wine. I am not
sure about libgphoto2 though.

Here are the following optional flags for wine in gentoo:
alsa cups dbus esd gecko gnutls hal jack jpeg lcms ldap nas ncurses
opengl oss png samba scanner ssl win64 X xcomposite xinerama xml

John

haarp · Post by **haarp** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:41 am

Hello. I just found this thread by pure chance.

I am probably the person alienjon was talking about in the bug, as my distro is Gentoo 64 aswell, and I happen to have Wine compiled without all use-flags enabled.
I also happen to be the maintainer of SupCom on Appdb.
I am NOT getting the lockup bugs that alienjon does, the game works quite well, fast and stable on high settings for me.
Not all requirements are ever used by some apps. If I had mentioned my use-flags in my bug-reports, all of them would've been shot down

Up to this day, I have never reported a bug that turned out to have my build-settings to blame
Then again, a lot of users are probably not even aware whether one of their bugs is caused by incomplete builds. So I can completely understand Vitaliy. Devs can't be bothered to pay attention to their users' builds, it's far easier for both sides to assume complete ones.

alienjon · Post by **alienjon** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:10 pm

vitamin wrote:The fact that your distro's default configuration is incomplete - missing _major_ parts, like dbus, gnutls, lcms, libgphoto2 enough to send your report downstream to gentoo. Especially considering their POV on 32-bit apps in 64-bit distro.

Gentoo is a source-based distribution that focuses on specialization of configuration and compilation. The concept of a USE flag allows a Gentoo user the capability to enable or disable various facets of a certain package at compile-time. Build or runtime dependencies, however, are not optional and are not allowed to be changed via these flags. cups, for example, is not something Wine needs to either compile or to run by itself but may be needed/helpful for certain Wine functionality (this is why I understand that the developer asked me to compile completely - to rule out these other things). The fact that 'dbus', 'gnutls', etc... were removed as USE flags in the manner they were does NOT indicate that Wine is not being built with those, but rather that they have been changed to required packages for Wine. (They used to be optional) For the record, however, I did have those enabled when they were optional.

vitamin wrote:f you think that part "X" of Wine is not required, I'd agree with you only when you show me any Windows version with that part "X" absent. Or a guarantee that all developers in the world that write for Windows don't use this part "X" except for exactly what it's intended for. Considering that MSDN had never said "don't use this API unless you using X" anything purposely removed from Wine is an invalid configuration.

As I mentioned before, I understand that the developer wants me to use a version of Wine with all dependencies met (which I assure everyone will happen - I've just been away from my desktop (where all of this is going on) for a few days now (I'll hopefully have a chance later today, however)) but my point in these kinds of indications is that of the two unmet dependencies I can assure you have not functionality in the program I am trying to run (a game called Supreme Commander) so even though Windows likely has implementation for these and Wine, as such, should as well, the program I am trying to run has not affiliation to ANY functions directly related to these libraries (libgphoto2 - digital camera capabilities; and liblcms - network connection libraries)

vitamin wrote:This is all well and good, but you haven't mentioned what video drivers you have and what card and drivers your friend use.

I did mention mine:

alienjon wrote:Additionally, I am using a GeForce 7600GS card with the latest drivers (180.60, I believe

I did not, as you pointed out, mention the other individual's, however. I do not know the exact model, but I know he is using an nVidia GeForce card as well and that it is a higher-numbered model than mine. He is using the exact same drivers, however.

haarp · Post by **haarp** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:12 pm

8800GTS 320MB, 180.60 driver, to be precise.

alienjon · Post by **alienjon** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:14 pm

Hi Haarp

I didn't want to mention you earlier just because I didn't want to point fingers and name names. Thanks for the post though.

I also want to make a correction to the last post, too. In performing a Google search I found liblcms to be related to modem-internet connections. In double checking this, however, I found that this is incorrect and it is, in fact, a color management library of some sorts. This is more interesting for me as it could well be related. Again, I'll look into this as soon as I get back to my computer later tonight. I just wanted to point out my error.

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:03 pm

Anyway, back to the problem.
Do you have any sound servers running (pulse, esd, etc)?
Do you have compiz (3d desktop effects) disabled?
What window manager are you using?
Have you tried running the game in virtual desktop?
Have you made any changes in winecfg / registry?

alienjon · Post by **alienjon** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:00 am

alienjon wrote:liblcms to be related to modem-internet connections.

My apologies on this. It wasn't lcms but libcapi20 (which IS related to modem-stuff) It needs a kernel rebuild, though, so I might need a day or two just to make sure I don't mess it up.

vitamin wrote:Do you have any sound servers running (pulse, esd, etc)?
Do you have compiz (3d desktop effects) disabled?
What window manager are you using?
Have you tried running the game in virtual desktop?
Have you made any changes in winecfg / registry?

In order:
I have alsasound running (the init script) but no others.
I am using KDE 4 but have desktop effects disabled.
I am using KWin4
I have not tried in a virtual desktop (not quite sure how to do that)
In trying to fix this problem I actually uninstalled Wine + all the wine configuration files so that I would work from a clean install. The only two things I have installed right now that is non-standard is d3dx9 via winetricks (this not only copies the d3d files but also configures wine to use them natively) Without the latter the game won't run (well, I need d3dx9_36.dll but installing all of them via winetricks removes some other warnings (fixme's) as well) Secondly, I have xact installed (also via winetricks) This is for sound to work for the game but is not actually needed for the game to run (as far as I can run it, at least)

alienjon · Post by **alienjon** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:25 pm

haarp, did you happen to install the game via the installer or through a Windows install?

In the bug thread, James noted trying the demo for the game and I figured it was worth trying that as well just for heck's sake. Turns out that the demo will actually play for me (although really slow, but it doesn't lock up and I don't get the error). He also noted that the demo installer installs directx, so now I'm wondering if the actual game's installer might install something into Windows that I don't have because I used a Window's install?

haarp · Post by **haarp** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:49 pm

Honestly, I can't remember. I do know that I have at least updated the game in a Windows VM.
But I also had deleted my wineprefix once and just copied the games folder to the new one, so there shouldn't be anything outside of the SupCom folder that is necessary (except that d3dx9 dll and xactengine)
I admit that this is not the best way to "reinstall" my games, but I'm just too lazy, and it never failed to work for me.

Have you tried tweaking SupComs graphics settings? Here's my $WINEPREFIX/users/haarp/Local Settings/Application Data/Gas Powered Games/SupremeCommander/Game.prefs
http://pastebin.com/m1750ad76
Maybe it's some default setting screwing up here...

alienjon · Post by **alienjon** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:35 am

Thanks HAARP.

I should have thought of asking for that before, it was good to compare profiles. Without going into more detail than I have to, I essentially matched my settings with yours (As well as the order), started the game and it worked! After quite a bit more testing with the preferences (this is most of the details I won't go into) I found that the 'fidelity' setting (which you actually have set to '2') is what is causing me grief. I think this is something I accidentally changed initially (lucky me!) because the game works for me when this setting is changed to '0' (zero).

In game, the only thing I see different with this setting "off" is that damage to the terrain is disabled. There are some more details as to the gameplay and functionality, etc..., but I'll post that as updated data (along with this) in appdb. Thank you EVERYONE for the suggestions and help!