MacOS X cocoa and carbon for Linux?

hahomir4ev · Post by **hahomir4ev** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:12 am

Do you know about such implementation of the Mac OS API for Linux ?
I was thinking would this be hard to be done ? Having in mind that the MacOS and Linux OSes have much more in common than Linux and Windows. The benefits of such projects will be great , as there is great diversity of applications for MacOS ,and if they can be used native in Linux there will be great advantage for all Linux users.

vitamin · Post by **vitamin** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:20 am

hahomir4ev wrote:Do you know about such implementation of the Mac OS API for Linux ?
I was thinking would this be hard to be done ? Having in mind that the MacOS and Linux OSes have much more in common than Linux and Windows. The benefits of such projects will be great , as there is great diversity of applications for MacOS ,and if they can be used native in Linux there will be great advantage for all Linux users.

Except that's the closed part of mac os and such not interesting for most Linuxoids.
Also what's that got to do with Wine?

Gert van den Berg · Post by **Gert van den Berg** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:52 am

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 2:12 PM, hahomir4ev <[email protected]> wrote:

Do you know about such implementation of the Mac OS API for Linux ?
I was thinking would this be hard to be done ? Having in mind that the MacOS and Linux OSes have much more in common than Linux and Windows. The benefits of such projects will be great , as there is great diversity of applications for MacOS ,and if they can be used native in Linux there will be great advantage for all Linux users.

http://www.gnustep.org/ implements OpenStep on which Cocoa is based.

(However it usually requires recompilation, and several OS X API's
such as spotlight, etc is missing)

More background:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUstep
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_(API)

Gert

hahomir4ev · Post by **hahomir4ev** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:17 pm

[/quote]
http://www.gnustep.org/ implements OpenStep on which Cocoa is based.

(However it usually requires recompilation, and several OS X API's
such as spotlight, etc is missing)

More background:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUstep
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_(API)

Gert
[/quote]

I don`t think , that GNUstep makes it possible to run MacOS X app`s ,the same way WINE does with Windows .exe files , which is what I asked.
And how hard would be to do , let`s say McWINE branch of WINE, that can do that ?

austin987 · Post by **austin987** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:21 pm

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 2:17 PM, hahomir4ev <[email protected]> wrote:
http://www.gnustep.org/ implements OpenStep on which Cocoa is based.

(However it usually requires recompilation, and several OS X API's
such as spotlight, etc is missing)

More background:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUstep
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_(API)

Gert[/quote]

I don`t think , that GNUstep makes it possible to run MacOS X app`s ,the same way WINE does with Windows .exe files , which is what I asked.
And how hard would be to do , let`s say McWINE branch of WINE, that can do that ?
[/quote]
That is completely unrelated to wine.

--
-Austin

hahomir4ev · Post by **hahomir4ev** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:48 pm

As far as I get the idea behind the WINE project , is to make Linux much more user friendly , by the means of allowing Linux users to run Windows applications , instead of waiting someone to write those applications for Linux .Which may never happen , because the software developers are not financially interested to do so. Or someone to create a open source free analog. Therefore if you are able to use Mac OS apps in Linux the same way you can use windows executable via WINE ,this discussion is related to WINE and Linux.

austin987 · Post by **austin987** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:08 pm

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 2:48 PM, hahomir4ev <[email protected]> wrote:

As far as I get the idea behind the WINE project , is to make Linux mach more user friendly , by the means of allowing Linux users to run Windows applications

Partially, but you're misinterpreting that. From the README:
=============
Wine is a program which allows running Microsoft Windows programs
(including DOS, Windows 3.x and Win32 executables) on Unix. It
consists of a program loader which loads and executes a Microsoft
Windows binary, and a library (called Winelib) that implements Windows
API calls using their Unix or X11 equivalents. The library may also
be used for porting Win32 code into native Unix executables.

Wine is free software, released under the GNU LGPL; see the file
LICENSE for the details.
=============

Wine is an implementation of the Windows API for Unix based OS's (not
just GNU/Linux).

What you're wanting would be a separate (albeit similar) project.
--
-Austin

James McKenzie · Post by **James McKenzie** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:52 pm

hahomir4ev wrote:

As far as I get the idea behind the WINE project , is to make Linux mach more user friendly , by the means of allowing Linux users to run Windows applications , instead of waiting someone to write those applications for Linux .Which may never happen , because the software developers are not financially interested to do so. Or someone to create a open source free analog. Therefore if you are able to use Mac OS apps in Linux the same way you can use windows executable via WINE ,this discussion is related to WINE and Linux.

Actually, no. You are discussing how to get MacOSX applications to run
on Linux, not Windows applications on either Linux or MacOSX.

You might find a friendly discussion somewhere else on the
implementation of Cocoa/Carbon on Linux, but this is not a topic of
discussion here.

James McKenzie

Richie · Post by **Richie** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:47 am

James McKenzie wrote:hahomir4ev wrote:
You might find a friendly discussion somewhere else on the
implementation of Cocoa/Carbon on Linux, but this is not a topic of
discussion here.
James McKenzie

Of cource it would be a completely unrelated project. Therefore the wine forum is not the right place for such a project.
BUT: Up to now there is no McWine or MINE project. GNUStep is a gnu implementation of OpenStep but not of cocoa. It implements some parts of cocoa but it's far from complete. And as far as I know it is not there main goal to reach cocoa compatibility. And if they have some compatibility it is only at source code level not on binary level (as wine has for windows binaries).
And this is where wine comes in: WINE is very unique in providing binary compatibility. People see wine and what it can do. As Mac OS X gets more popular they demand for something similar for mac applications. But they cannot find something useful on the net and so they start asking here in the forum. I think you will get more of these questions in the future (Maybe an FAQ entry might be useful?). Perhaps some day there will be a project that you can link to (and get rid of these people

).
I have looked myself what is out there and what might be useful to read for people that might start such a project. Here are some links:

GNUStep - provides a GPL implementation of OpenStep (predecessor of Cocoa)
Cocotron - wants to implement full source code compatibility with cocoa for compiling mac applications for windows (MIT License)
Darwinux - Kyle Moffett has worked on a linux kernel patch for loading MACH-O binaries on PowerPC64
COMPAT_DARWIN - MACH-O loading on net bsd

First step would be to implement a mach-o loader and implement the darwin system calls. As I found out it might be easier to implement loading x86-64 mach-o binaries first because the ABI for x86-64 is the same on linux and mac os x. (And the system call numbers don't collapse thus could be separated from each other). This step would allow running 64-bit command line programs.
Next step would be building GnuStep or Cocotron in such a way that it could be used by mac os x applications. And then it would be a long way until version 1.0 is released (As you all know wine took 15 years).

I think a first cool goal would be running Mac games on linux. They all use opengl and do not require much cocoa. And they do not require installation, just copying the files. WINE will always have problems with copy protection based on window kernel drivers but mac games do not have such copy protection afaik.

PS: Sorry James McKenzie, but I think it is currently the best place to write all this down.[/b]

James McKenzie · Post by **James McKenzie** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:39 pm

Richie wrote:

James McKenzie wrote:

hahomir4ev wrote:
You might find a friendly discussion somewhere else on the
implementation of Cocoa/Carbon on Linux, but this is not a topic of
discussion here.
James McKenzie

Of cource it would be a completely unrelated project. Therefore the wine forum is not the right place for such a project.
BUT: Up to now there is no McWine or MINE project.

Sad to say, but there IS a project for porting Wine to the PowerPC
platform: Darwine. It has stalled and really could use help. It has
forked so that there are two paths of development and the Intel fork is
being worked back into the main Wine project. That leaves the PowerPC
fork to be worked on to incorporate Qemu, an x86 emulator for the PowerPC.
As to the Aqua 'look and feel' there is an effort to do this as well
that may or may not need assistance. The goal in that project is to
remove all Object C code and replace it with 'c' code equivalents. You
can ask the status of that project on the Wine Development list.

Again, this is not the area for discussing development of Wine. Let's
move this to the appropriate venue.

Thank you.

James McKenzie

hahomir4ev · Post by **hahomir4ev** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:45 pm

And here we go five years later......................http://darling.dolezel.info/en/Darling

lahmbi5678 · Post by **lahmbi5678** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:14 am

Hi hahomir4ev,

I'm not using Mac at all, so I can't judge the technological part, but if it is actually working (for simple or command line apps), I'd say that is quite impressive. Did you try to get some more attention in the web in order to build some kind of community around your project?

hahomir4ev · Post by **hahomir4ev** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:14 am

lahmbi5678 wrote:Hi hahomir4ev,

I'm not using Mac at all, so I can't judge the technological part, but if it is actually working (for simple or command line apps), I'd say that is quite impressive. Did you try to get some more attention in the web in order to build some kind of community around your project?

I'm not involved in the development of this project , I'm just happy for the progress we finally see .Since I asked for that 5 years ago . All the credit goes to Luboš Doležel (http://darling.dolezel.info), the main developer of Project Darling . He used some of the code of "maloader" project , and made all this possible . I hope Mr.Doležel will go further with the excellent job he is doing .