Ableton + wineASIO + midi

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riccardocagnasso
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Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by riccardocagnasso »

I'm hitting the strangest problem ever. I've got Ableton Live 10 (and 9) running on wine and using wineASIO as audio driver.

The thing works quite nice and wineASIO outputs audio to JACK2 perfectly.
But if I connect a MIDI USB device (or just funnel MIDI via a virtual port) something really strange happens. Ableton doesn't recognize properly MIDI NOTE-ON and NOTE-OFF commands. CONTROLS work fine. The NOTE-ON and NOTE-OFF are still read from the USB device. If I open MIDIOX at the same time, they are displayed there. The ableton MIDI activity indicator is still fickering, but they are not detected by the MIDI bus on Ableton. So I cannot, for example, sound a drum machine with MIDI.

The strangest thing of all is that if I switch from wineASIO to the DirectSound driver, the MIDI works flawlessly.

I don't even know exactly HOW to ask for help, is such a strange problem.
Draxacon
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by Draxacon »

It probably has something to do with how your midi is routed, on whatever Jack2 interface your using.
I use cadence, and i have midi setup through alsa.
riccardocagnasso
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by riccardocagnasso »

Draxacon wrote:It probably has something to do with how your midi is routed, on whatever Jack2 interface your using.
I use cadence, and i have midi setup through alsa.
I'm using cadence / jack2 / winasio and midi interfaces are setup directly through alsa without passing by jack2.

I don't think is strictly a MIDI problem. Ableton is still capable of reading the midi. This is some really weird stuff.
dreamcat4
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by dreamcat4 »

Tried this for the first time today. And get a similar problem over here.

Ableton 10.0.1 + Jack2 (1.9.12) and jack is using alsa, compiled the wine asio dll .so

What happens for me is that:

I can get out around 1-2 midi notes. Then after like (~1 sec) the audio dies. No sound anymore. Again, i can see ableton registering the midi event with the little indicator in the top right corner of the screen, but it's broken on the channel / buses.

I did not use the program 'cadence' but everything else seems pretty similar. As far as the major software components. I read on Ableton's FAQ that Live 10 is a 64-bit only application. So if you are experiencing this same MIDI problem with Live 9 then it would be interesting to know if your Live 9 (and the wine asio dll for it !) was 32-bits or 64-bits.

Because if it works on Live 9 under 32-bits (but not 64-bits).. then that might tell us something a bit more useful.

This midi bug seems to occur under wine / ableton 10 if I just use the standard computer keyboard. Without resorting to midi coming from jackd or alsa. While the wine asio dll is selected in the configuration.

If it is also broken the same way for 32-bits). Then perhaps a good idea is to look at the sourcecode for wine-asio.dll.so. Because that is the common factor here. And the code is open source (viewable), and presumably fairly small.
th8a
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by th8a »

I can confirm this. I am having the exact same issue with wineasio, ableton 10 and jack/alsa. I am using cadence and carla to route midi around and I also have a2jmidid running. Normally, everything works well within my setup, bit running ableton with wineasio is giving me the EXACT results that the OP has described. Whenever I change a setting in the midi setup of ableton, a note or two will go through and trigger a sound, then stop working - sometimes becoming a stuck note. Its quite frustrating as everything else in Ableton appears to be working perfectly - low latency and everything! any fix/workaround would be greatly appreciated.
lahmbi5678
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by lahmbi5678 »

You could try to file a bug in wine's bugzilla or ask for help in wineasio's forum, see https://sourceforge.net/p/wineasio/discussion/802003/.
dreamcat4
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by dreamcat4 »

Thanks for the suggestions. One of the things i have since noticed was that there seems no obvious error messages being printed by the wineasio driver. All of it's output seems normal. At the time of the issue (broken audio), it just prints the sample rate at regular intervals. Which is what it was doing anyway.

Code: Select all

0024:trace:asio:WineASIOCreateInstance pobj = 0xceee4c0
0024:trace:asio:Init iface: 0xceee4c0, sysRef: 0x1007e
0024:trace:asio:Init JACK client opened as: 'Ableton Live 10 Suite'
0024:trace:asio:Init 32 IOChannel structures allocated
0024:trace:asio:Init 32 IOChannel structures initialized
0024:trace:asio:Init WineASIO 0.9.2 initialized
0024:trace:asio:GetDriverName iface: 0xceee4c0, name: 0x144fce5f8
0024:trace:asio:GetDriverVersion iface: 0xceee4c0
0024:trace:asio:GetClockSources iface: 0xceee4c0, clocks: 0x22e100, numSources: 0x22e490
0024:trace:asio:SetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate 48000.000000 requested
0024:trace:asio:GetChannels iface: 0xceee4c0, inputs: 16, outputs: 16
0024:trace:asio:GetBufferSize iface: 0xceee4c0, minSize: 0x144fce6ac, maxSize: 0x144fce6b0, preferredSize: 0x144fce6b4, granularity: 0x22e480
0024:trace:asio:GetBufferSize Buffersize fixed at 1024
0024:trace:asio:CreateBuffers iface: 0xceee4c0, bufferInfo: 0x144fd16dc, numChannels: 10, bufferSize: 1024, asioCallbacks: 0x144f625a0
0024:trace:asio:CreateBuffers Buffersize fixed at 1024
0024:trace:asio:CreateBuffers The ASIO host supports ASIO v2
0024:trace:asio:CreateBuffers The ASIO host supports kAsioResetRequest
0024:trace:asio:CreateBuffers The ASIO host supports kAsioResyncRequest
0024:trace:asio:CreateBuffers The ASIO host supports kAsioBufferSizeChange
0024:trace:asio:CreateBuffers 32 ASIO audio buffers allocated (256 kB)
0024:trace:asio:CreateBuffers 10 audio channels initialized
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetLatencies iface: 0xceee4c0 Latency = 1024 frames
0024:trace:asio:GetLatencies iface: 0xceee4c0 Latency = 1024 frames
0024:trace:asio:GetLatencies iface: 0xceee4c0 Latency = 1024 frames
0024:trace:asio:CanSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Samplerate = 48000, requested samplerate = 22050
0024:trace:asio:CanSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Samplerate = 48000, requested samplerate = 32000
0024:trace:asio:CanSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Samplerate = 48000, requested samplerate = 44100
0024:trace:asio:CanSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Samplerate = 48000, requested samplerate = 48000
0024:trace:asio:CanSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Samplerate = 48000, requested samplerate = 88200
0024:trace:asio:CanSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Samplerate = 48000, requested samplerate = 96000
0024:trace:asio:CanSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Samplerate = 48000, requested samplerate = 176400
0024:trace:asio:CanSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Samplerate = 48000, requested samplerate = 192000
0024:trace:asio:GetLatencies iface: 0xceee4c0 Latency = 1024 frames
0024:trace:asio:GetLatencies iface: 0xceee4c0 Latency = 1024 frames
0024:trace:asio:GetLatencies iface: 0xceee4c0 Latency = 1024 frames
0024:trace:asio:GetLatencies iface: 0xceee4c0 Latency = 1024 frames
0024:trace:asio:GetLatencies iface: 0xceee4c0 Latency = 1024 frames
0024:trace:asio:GetLatencies iface: 0xceee4c0 Latency = 1024 frames
0024:trace:asio:GetLatencies iface: 0xceee4c0 Latency = 1024 frames
0024:trace:asio:GetLatencies iface: 0xceee4c0 Latency = 1024 frames
0024:trace:asio:Start iface: 0xceee4c0
0024:trace:asio:Start TimeInfo mode enabled
0024:trace:asio:jack_thread_creator arg: 0x7e5f4d58, thread_id: 0x7e5f4d70, attr: 0x22e340, function: 0x7feb447f7590
0039:trace:asio:jack_thread_creator_helper arg: 0x7e5f4d58
0024:trace:asio:Start WineASIO successfully loaded
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
...
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
<midi key pressed>
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
0024:trace:asio:GetSampleRate iface: 0xceee4c0, Sample rate is 48000
And different [at the time of the midi event] is printed in the wine debug log is being printed as coming from the Ableton application either. Other than it's usual message of:

Code: Select all

0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
0024:fixme:dxgi:d3d11_swapchain_Present1 Ignored present parameters 0x22f530.
dreamcat4
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by dreamcat4 »

Hi again! Found the solution:

When I discovered that the source code from the sourceforge.net repository is out of date. There same author, has moved the src over to github. And added some extra commits. It is available here:

https://github.com/jhernberg/wineasio

A quick recompile, and then replace the existing .dll.so file with the new one. Just copy over it. Then re-launch ableton.

The bug is fixed now - its working!
th8a
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by th8a »

Dude, you freakin rule! Getting ableton 10 to run perfectly in linux is no trivial matter; Having the most popular DAW running great with no latency marks a major turning point for linux as a feasible pro audio standard, and a much needed alternative to the evil apple which has ruled the pro audio market for a very long and over-priced era. Im stoked. Cheers, all
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by th8a »

Hey again... that Last post may have been a bit premature... I compiled and installed the github version of wineasio, and yet, the same problem persists... am I missing something here?
dreamcat4
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by dreamcat4 »

Not sure. I suppose there are 2 main possibilities.

a) You didn't copy / overwrite the new .dll.so to the right destination folder. Or got mixed up. Or build 32 bits version instead of 64-bits, etc.

b) You did everything correct, but the same bug / bad code path occurs in different places for different people. In which case something got moved around in the newer commits. Which then made this issue 'hidden' for me, but not for you. Perhaps you used a different compiler than me, or have other versions of associated libs. or a different version of Ableton 10. And whatever, the combined codebase (of everything being executed) is not that same between our systems.

For better clarity, the instructions I used to build wineasio are all documented over here:

https://github.com/jhernberg/wineasio/issues/6

And my verison of Ableton is:

"Ableton Live 10 Suite (10.0.3 Build: 2018-08-16_5ae7d49389)"

And here are my other instructions for installing Ableton 10, exactly as I did on my own system (which is a quad core, no hyperthreading, intel i5-6600K, with 16GB single channel ram)

(edited, for copy-paste error)

Code: Select all

# Tested on ubuntu 18.04, with PlayOnLinux 4.2.12
sudo apt-get install -y playonlinux

# open playonlinux program
# navigate to 'Tools' --> 'Manage Wine Versions'
# download the latest winehq stable release 3.0.x
# download the latest winehq dev    release 3.1.x

# The PlayOnLinux Install Wizard always defaults to 32-bits
# So we must create a virtual drive ourselves first

# Click 'Configure', Click 'New' button in corner, to create a new Virtual Drive
# Next, Select '64-bits windows installation'
# wine version: '3.16',  Name: 'ableton10-wine316-64bit'

# If prompted - Install windows components: 'Wine Mono' (for .NET) - YES
# (Otherwise dont worry about it)

# Tested configuration:
# 'Ableton Live 10 Suite.exe' v10.0.3, on Wine v3.16  - works
# (Max was not tested)

# Then select the Virtual Drive, then the 'Wine' Tab, and Click the Button:
# 'Configure Wine', and select 'Windows 10' for Default profile, and click 'Apply'

# Then select the Virtual Drive, then the last 'Misc' Tab, and Click the Button:
# 'Open a shell'
# Then type
wine64 --version
wine64 regsvr32 wineasio.dll
# it should then report back
# 'regsvr32: Successfully registered DLL 'wineasio.dll'
exit


# Then select the Virtual Drive, then the last 'Misc' Tab, and Click the Button:
#   'Run a Windows Executable (.exe) file in this virtual drive'
# Install Ableton Live Suite 10, Usint the setup.msi Installer

# Then select the Virtual Drive, then the 1st 'General' Tab, and Click the Button:
#   'Make a new shortcut from this virtual drive'
# Repeat for 'Max.exe', 'MaxRT.exe', or any other programs

# Run the 'Ableton Live Suite 10.exe' application
dreamcat4
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by dreamcat4 »

If you are still having problems, then it would be worth it to diff between all the commits from the git log. Between the sf and github repos. To see if any areas of the wineasio driver pop out as being suspicious. There really were not that many changes made to it.

Then after that, raise a new issue on the github issues tracker for jhenberg/wineasio project.

https://github.com/jhernberg/wineasio/issues

Kind regards
th8a
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by th8a »

Hey man, thanks for the direction. I am currently using wine staging 3.7 and Ableton at 10.0.1. I will try a non staging version of wine and update Ableton and see how that goes. I also am wondering which version of asio.h you are using? There are several available, but I am using the one straight from the steinberg asio SDK which they have on their website. Are you using some other variation of asio.h, perhaps? I'll post any notable findings I may have...
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by dreamcat4 »

th8a wrote:which version of asio.h you are using?
It was already included here --> https://github.com/jhernberg/wineasio/issues/6

As you can see,

wget http://www.steinberg.net/sdk_downloads/ASIOSDK2.3.1.zip
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by th8a »

yup, thats the one I got... asiosdk2.3... tried several versions of wine, messed with configs etc. and different versions of ableton. all either have same results or wont even run without crashing. Is it possible that somehow the old version of wineasio is still registered even though I replaced the dll with a recompiled version and re-ran regsrv? Do I need to regiister both 32 and 64 versions or just 64? as of now I only have 64 registered (wine64 regsrv32 blah blah...) I am running out of ideas...
dreamcat4
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by dreamcat4 »

th8a wrote:is it possible that somehow the old version of wineasio is still registered even though I replaced the dll with a recompiled version and re-ran regsrv? Do I need to regiister both 32 and 64 versions or just 64? as of now I only have 64 registered (wine64 regsrv32 blah blah...) I am running out of ideas...
definately 64-bits only. Because ableton 10 is a 64-bits only application.

The precise way that i did it was to:

* First installed ableton 10, on wine 3.16, and tested ableton audio through pulseaudio driver
* Then installed the wineasio version from sourceforge git repo
* Copied into wine 3.16 tree, registered that version, inside the playonlinux shell
* Encountered MIDI bug (stops working)
* Downloaded and compiled newer version of wineasio, from github
* Copied the (64-bits only) newly compiled .dll.so file overwriting the existing one

I did not re-register it again with 'wine64 regserv32 ...' cmd. That seemed to be not-needed.

My own opinion is that you might have followed the steps well. Because they were documented clearly enough. However you still have not done the last couple of steps I suggested, which were to:

* Do a git diff between the commits. Of the 2 versions.
* Raise a new issue for jhernberg to see, on his wineasio github repo

Sorry I have no further time for this right now. And it is still not clear, at least to me, what is the precise nature of the issue here. So it would be ab appropriate time to ask the developer of wineasio. In case he has any ideas. All I did was just assume he already fixed the bug. Whatever it is. As mentioned earlier, it's only a few commits different. So at least should be easy enough to examine / look it over. Kind Regards.
th8a
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by th8a »

Thanks for the advice. Still no luck on my end, but then, I have been working non stop all week and havent been able to keep trying things. The nature of the bug is downright bizarre, as it throws no errors and technically ableton does see the midi stream... I'm stumped. I'll give the wineasio dev a shout and see what he says. thanks again
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by dreamcat4 »

Well this is the git diff of the code changes, between the two versions:

https://github.com/jhernberg/wineasio/c ... 7799862ed7
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by dreamcat4 »

th8a wrote:Thanks for the advice. Still no luck on my end,
Hmm, you know when I look at the diff, there is some new stuff in there about the time codes. This might be something to pay attention to IF you are not using a realtime linux kernel. And have not selected the realtime option in Jack.

I installed realtime kernel to get rid of an error msg in Jack2. I did not bother to include these settings before. This is my kernel version (low latency):

Code: Select all

± uname -a
Linux apex 4.18.6-041806-lowlatency #201809050847 SMP PREEMPT Wed Sep 5 08:52:20 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

$ cat ~/.jackdrc 
/usr/bin/jackd -dalsa -r48000 -p1024 -n2 -Xraw -D -Chw:U192k -Phw:U192k
So in qjackctl --> Settings Dialog
Parameters TAB

Code: Select all

Driver: ALSA
[X] Realtime - checked
Midi driver: raw
I'm not sure if that actually will matter or make a difference for you. It was simply something assumed / forgotten about in my earlier reports.

Timestamp codes seems to affect sample position. Which is [*potentially*] relevant here. And you are using the wineasio.dll.so to connect ableton to Jack2, right?
th8a
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by th8a »

Hey, sorry for the delayed response. I have been out of town on work all week and will be out again for another week starting tomorrow, so it will be about a week before I can really grind down on this error and see if I can get it going. One thing I can say that differs in our config is that you have your midi driver set to 'raw,' whereas I tend to have my midi handled by ALSA and a2jmidi exclusively, due to the errors that the jack raw drivers tend to have in some DAWs like bitwig. I think I did try running ableton with the raw drivers and still got the same errors, but I am not positive. I suppose it is worth a shot to try again. Other than that, our setup is very similar. I am running the realtime kernel in Ubuntu Studio bionic with jack2 and all that wackyness. I will keep this post updated as I succeed or fail to figure this out.
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by th8a »

so it has been a long, busy couple weeks of solid working, but I booked myself out this week and can finally take some time to work on this. To reply to your last post, I am using the latest low-latency kernel of ubuntu studio bionic. Time code handling does seem most relevant here, as my guess is that it is something like that that is glitching things out. MIDI timecode protocalls is one aspect of midi that has quaite a few variations and can fail to sync with some other programs in some instances. I am not sure if this is an issue that cuts as deep as the kernel, but it's worth mentioning, certainly. I will try some things today and see if I can figure out wth is going on here. Cheers!
th8a
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by th8a »

I spent quite a bit of time trying to tackle this problem. It's a bit tragic, as the tutorials out there for getting Ableton to work with wineasio make it look like an easy-fancy-free process, and for some it may be, but for those of us encountering this bug, there doesn't really seem to be much that anyone can do besides pointing it out to the developers and waiting til they get around to fixing it in future wineasio updates. I tried everything I could think of... every jack setting imaginable, winetricks settings, pulse settings, alsa settings... even trying to use other windows programs that work well to receive midi and output it to Ableton, hoping that it would reformat messages in a way that jives cool with Ableton. It just wont happen with wineasio drivers in Ableton. What is even more strange is that this problem is non-existant in other windows DAWs using wineasio, like FL studio and Audiomulch both work fantastically. It's give up time for me, I'm afraid... I'll just raise the issue to the devs and see what happens....

It's not all doom and gloom though. For those of us facing this bug, I have found a reasonably good workaround to use in the mean time. Installing the FL studio ASIO drivers opens up the option to set the FL-asio driver as an audio device in ableton. While this does not allow for full jack integration, it does reduce latency enough to make Ableton very usable for recording audio and midi. You can still pipe audio into jack through the pulseaudio sync at decent latency times, and once you have your midi recorded, you can always switch back to wineasio to pipe audio around through jack. There is also the ability to record and import midi files. Hope that is useful for anyone pulling their hair out over this like i was.

That's all from me for now. Peace be.
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Re: Ableton + wineASIO + midi

Post by dreamcat4 »

The issue that I am having is that Ableton 10 has a significant latency and/or drop outs under my wine environment. So I cannot use it anyway / regardless of the absence of this bug.

So if you have any recommendations as to what I can do to make it run more efficiently. And without dropouts under wine. Then it might at least be useful to one of us.

Also: you should have contacted the wineasio developer a lot earlier here. In fact, immediately after it was pointed out to you. Especially after I checked through your settings, and found them to be entirely reasonable. It is important to make the developer aware at the earliest possible opportunity. Otherwise you might miss out on a window when they are active on the tool, when they could have already had that opportunity to address these issues.
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