AutoCAD and Wine

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austin987
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autocad 2008 and wine

Post by austin987 »

On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 4:44 AM, miciomax <[email protected]> wrote:
epsilon_da wrote:
About starting a new AutoCAD clone. I am an electronics student and i want to start an open Electronic CAD, which in some parts share the same widgets as a complete CAD. So it can be a joined project. Making good CAD widget can be made multiple kinds of CADs for different applications.
How many here are interested to start such a project?
Hemm... sorry but I've already heard many times that one... Just look on how many cad projects started and went to nothing. I must admit that I tried it too, some time ago... but it's too much for one person (well, if you own enough money that you can live without working, and if you prefere spend 8-10 ours a day on PC instead of going to the beach, maybe in 10 years you can....).

The only goot start I've seen in the past was intellicad one, it was opensource then, but... some "very intelligent" (??) people started to compile it, rename it and selling it as a propietary app, so intellicad consortium closed sources again.
One stuff that could be (realistically) done would be to join about 50-100 interested developers, join intellicad consortium (which costs money), join opendwg alliance, at source level (which cost much money) and start a true porting to linux.
Ah, I forgot, we'd need also a Spatial license for 3d.
BUT, developed cad couldn't be made opensource, because of non-disclosure agreements, so couldn't also not use gpl stuffs on it.... It could just be another closed source app targeted to linux/mac. Maybe not a bad idea, but economically not rentable, imho.

Max





This discussion is not related to wine, please take it elsewhere.
Dotan Cohen

autocad 2008 and wine

Post by Dotan Cohen »

2008/6/22 miciomax <[email protected]>:
So, you want to use AutoCAD in Linux, but you do not want to ask the
developers to write a Linux version.
Let's say that if I have to loose my time, I've got many many more
interesting ways to do it :-)
Interesting, perhaps, but here you can be productive. Even if _you_
don't need AutoCAD, _I_ need CAD software for Linux. Can I ask you to
do me a favor? Write to Solidworks (the dominant CAD in my country)
and request Linux support:
http://www.solidworks.com/pages/company/contactus.html

Please, for me. The two latest versions do not run on Wine, nor on
codeweavers. Do me a favor and express interest in Solidworks for
Linux, for me. I cannot use an OS in which the applications that I
need for my industry are not available.
Even if you prefer the older interface (which, regarding Solidworks, so do I), you do realize that in some years time you will be forced to upgrade to be compatible with
you coworkers, no?
Well, I don't agree 100%. It's true that on last year I started receiving dwgs that my good old 2005 can't open, but they don't use ANY of the new superfancy features of 2006+.
They're just incompatible because use a different file format. So, I went here ;
http://www.dwggateway.com/
And.... problem solved. My old-good-fast 2005 now can open 2008 files, and I'm sure that it'll open version 2256 files too in the future.
That's fine if you only need to read the documents. I need to edit and
share them, as do most other engineers.
IMHO, we've got twice the probability to have an opensource
autrocad-like app in linux than a port of autocad.... Knowing a bit
of MFC/DOTNET/DIRECTX, I'm sure that it'll be by easier by far
to write a cad from scratch than port autocad on linux.
That does NOT mean that AutoDesk cannot develop AutoCAD for Linux.
Until there exists a real, professional-grade CAD system for Linux
that is compatible with what is used in industry today, we must tell
the makers of the tools we use that we want to use them on Linux. And
we _do_ want to use them on Linux, otherwise Wine would not exist.
for that wine exists, and does a really great job.
No, Wine does not run the version of the software that I need to work.
I really wish that it did. And I don't want worry each new version
that it will break wine, and I cannot give any excuses why I am
suddenly unable to work. I need Solidworks, and I am chained to
whatever OS runs it.
In Linux we miss :
1) Good dwg-compatible cad (with full 3d support)
2) Good HTML WISYWIG editor (something like dreamweaver, I mean)
3) Some vertical apps, but on those I think is a good idea to ask sw-houses to port to
linux, as they don't have a so bread user pool, so it may be rentable for them to port.
4) Games. Yes, Linux widespreading must pass thru it. Many young people stay on windows because theyr preferred games don't run on linux.
Do you write to the game developers? Here is a list of addresses:
ArenaNet: http://www.arena.net/contact.php
Ironclad Games: http://www.ironcladgames.com/contact.html
Blizzard Entertainment: http://us.blizzard.com/support/webform-us.xml?gameId=0
Firzxis: http://www.firaxis.com/support/
Electronic Arts: http://www.info.ea.com/company/company_prlist.php
I'm all for it. You show me the project, the timeline until there is a
useable product that is Solidworks compatible, and I will donate
accordingly. What should I use in the meantime?
wine + autocad ? :-) that's what I'm doing.
Like said, it doesn't work for the version that I need.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
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miciomax
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Post by miciomax »

Well, the best you could do by now is to sponsor some developer to solve wine's problems for solidworks... or at least start analyzing it. If you really need it, that's the good way.
But it'll be far more expensive than an xp license, maybe with a vmware one.

I think wine developers are doing a really great job... 1 year ago I was thinking that autocad 2005+ would never run on wine because of dotnet... and now it does. So I think we're not far from 100% of apps running on wine.
Of course, we still need some speed improvements, but it can be done... now I'm seeing the end of the tunnel :)

Did you try to debug solidworks on wine ? Maybe that's less difficult than you can think... That happened to autocad, that was laying aroung for years before a stupid installation problem solved brought it back to live.

Me too I do use autocad2005 for my job, not just to see drawings, but I don't miss the features on 2006+ versions... nobody I know uses them :-)

Just a last note... writing to SW houses, imho, makes few sense. We should be thousand's of people for them to even think about it... and if window$ still has 90% of installed OS around, they'd never do costing ports.
For that I believe in wine : FIRST, we must have apps running on wine, THAN we could bring many people to linux and after all that we may convince sw houses to port their software. With a so small user base, chances are near 0.

I think that we're not too far away from "it runs better on wine than on Vista".... Already
many "old" (1-2 years old...) apps needs to be patched to run on Vista. I've heard (not tested) that autocad2005 doesn't, and autodesk will not support it anymore... so people are obliged to upgrade, as M$ also dropped support of XP.
Do you see that sometimes people will be angry to spend money buying bigger PCs, new OS and upgrade to new licenses of theirs software.
Max
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Re: autocad 2008 and wine

Post by epsilon_da »

austin987 wrote:This discussion is not related to wine, please take it elsewhere.
wow, you really dont like this needed opensource project to start.


And abut the difficulties of the project. Of course it will be hard, and will not have from start all the features of the newest autocad, but if it never starts, then will never have enought developers.
And the major problem is being able to import and export to dwg. Also of course and as in OOo it should have its own open format.

But i see that it wont start any time soon.
austin987
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autocad 2008 and wine

Post by austin987 »

On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 1:02 PM, epsilon_da <[email protected]> wrote:
austin987 wrote:
This discussion is not related to wine, please take it elsewhere.
wow, you really dont like this needed opensource project to start.


And abut the difficulties of the project. Of course it will be hard, and will not have from start all the features of the newest autocad, but if it never starts, then will never have enought developers.
And the major problem is being able to import and export to dwg. Also of course and as in OOo it should have its own open format.

But i see that it wont start any time soon.





I have no problem with it, and encourage for you to do so. However, it
is unrelated to wine, so please take off topic discussions elsewhere.
ruelle
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2005 and wine

Post by ruelle »

now is it possible to run autocad 2005 in wine with patch, am I right?:D :D
when it will be possible to run it on a normal installation of wine?? :?

thank you, ciao!!
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Post by epsilon_da »

ruelle: Maybe never. It is a hack.

Can somebody with a sane English write an online petition for autocad in:

http://www.petitiononline.com/create_petition.html

Or maybe create a webpage like with nvidia opendriver request:

http://www.opentheblob.com/nvidia/

That would be a start for someday having a real AutoCAD version in linux.

Some topics that the letter should cover are:
- Financially supporting the wine project for it supporting perfectly AutoCAD, or submit patches, and use winelib to distribute it, as Google does.
- Use Mono instead of .NET
- Use OpenGL instead of DX.
miciomax
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Post by miciomax »

epsilon_da wrote:ruelle: Maybe never. It is a hack.
Not exactly.... both patches needed are quite correct, so it is possible that they'll be shortly in wine.
Can somebody with a sane English write an online petition for autocad in:

http://www.petitiononline.com/create_petition.html

Or maybe create a webpage like with nvidia opendriver request:

http://www.opentheblob.com/nvidia/

That would be a start for someday having a real AutoCAD version in linux.
There was a version in linux, MANY years ago, and they stopped it.... I'd wonder it they'd resurrect it.....
...................
- Use OpenGL instead of DX.
Again, they HAD Opengl and they dropped it in favour of Directx.... because M$ dropped OpenGL support in Vista (IIRC).
So, first stuff would be to ask M$ to resupport opengl.... which would be like asking a politician to give you money for free....

Max
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Re: 2005 and wine

Post by miciomax »

ruelle wrote:now is it possible to run autocad 2005 in wine with patch, am I right?:D :D
YEP :-) I'm using it on my job.... Just an annoying slowness on TT fonts. The rest is
perfect.
when it will be possible to run it on a normal installation of wine?? :?
I hope soon :-)
Vote for the 2 bugs on Bugzilla and maybe it'll be sooner !

Max
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Re: 2005 and wine

Post by ruelle »

miciomax wrote: Vote for the 2 bugs on Bugzilla and maybe it'll be sooner !
i've done it..
miciomax wrote: Not exactly.... both patches needed are quite correct, so it is possible that they'll be shortly in wine.
And now, what/who we are waiting???
We can send a mail to the person that add patches??

thanks ciao
miciomax
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Re: 2005 and wine

Post by miciomax »

ruelle wrote:
miciomax wrote: Vote for the 2 bugs on Bugzilla and maybe it'll be sooner !
i've done it..
miciomax wrote: Not exactly.... both patches needed are quite correct, so it is possible that they'll be shortly in wine.
And now, what/who we are waiting???
We can send a mail to the person that add patches??

thanks ciao
I don't know if patches are already proposed for inclusion...I'll ask for it.
BTW, besides of 2 patches (and shlwapi for reglister today screen....), I've got an
annoying problem.... the *very* slow display of true type fonts.
Posted the bug report, but it's still unconfirmed. Can you make some tests about it ?
Jus open a (enough rich) drawing with many TT fonts inside and try to pan/zoom it.
Beware, you must have used TT fonts installed in your fonts dir, otherwise autocad will substitute them with non-TT fonts and bug don't appears.
Pan/zoom should be VERY slow, if view is set in 2d wireframe mode, and much faster in 3d wireframe mode.

If you can reproduce it, please go to bugzilla and vote for bug.... that's a really annoying one for normal autocad usage.

Max
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Post by ruelle »

Any news?? :wink:
I think there are a lot of requests from users interested to run
Autocad (2005 at least) on a unpatched wine..

ciao..
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Post by miciomax »

ruelle wrote:Any news?? :wink:
I think there are a lot of requests from users interested to run
Autocad (2005 at least) on a unpatched wine..

ciao..
Still nothing, but we're working on it :-)

Ciao

Max
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Post by ruelle »

I saw lasts comments on buzilla:
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13838
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13599

I think we must involve other developers to fix this small bugs...

What do you think to do now??
miciomax
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Post by miciomax »

ruelle wrote:I saw lasts comments on buzilla:
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13838
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13599

I think we must involve other developers to fix this small bugs...

What do you think to do now??
I'm thinking to give up and use my patched wine.
We've proposed 3 patches that weren't accepted... I'm out of ideas and time.

If some volunteer with soft-ice debugger knowledge on windows (I'm not using it anymore since years...) can give a try at autocad installer where it does crash on linux, maybe we'll have some more hints.
With winegdb (and imo gdb also...) the installer stops early, so I can't trace the offending call in assembler (opengl bug).
For the other bug (bad registry entries), I traced it down to msi, but I've got not enough knowledge about it to solve.
The last "bug", the slowness of TT fonts.... well, for that one I guess we have to wait even longer, but autocad is usable even with it.

My opinion, by now is :
1) find somebody able (and with enough spare time...) to make a patched wine debian package
2) put it somewhere for download for people not able to build wine alone.

I'm quite happy with my autocad 2005 on linux, I'm using it on my daily job and it works good, so it may be worth a try.

Max
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Post by miciomax »

Well, another patch posted for the OpenGL install bug... that one should be accepted.
So, just the registry bug remains...

Max
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Post by ruelle »

great new max!!!
mitttico :D
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Post by Timeout »

Hi miciomax!

I want to test the patch for Autocad if it solves my problem too because the symptoms are the same but the patch is not automatically installing on the last GIT stand when using

patch -p1 < patch_name.diff

and one has to enter the lines manually. Is it working on your side when you apply it that way?

Your Git is too old:

Here how it would look like on the most current GIT:

const GLubyte * WINAPI wine_glGetString( GLenum name )
{
const GLubyte *ret;
const char* GL_Extensions = NULL;

/* this is for buggy nvidia driver, crashing if called from a different
thread with no context... we just check for a valid context, and
return NULL if none */
if(NtCurrentTeb()->glContext == NULL)
return NULL;

The current patch can not be applied directly
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Post by miciomax »

well, I've the latest git on ubuntu hardy and it can be applied.... Maybe it's trashed somewhere during post.
But wait a bit, it should be applied to mainstream in few days.

BTW, the SECOND patch (backslash one) is still needed by now; without it autocad can be installed and run, but yu run into problems installing add-ons like express tools.

Ciao

Max
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Post by Timeout »

I managed to get the patch compiling in the end last night.
I hoped it would solve my problem of the installation hanging because of a "page fault". (it's hanging just after calling the debugger) Unfortunately the hang was for me still there with the patch (I have a nvidia card too).

I found out that it went further using +relay after 2-3 min where it seemed nothing happened and the installation would complete successfully. A +relay is then pretty useless.

About the add-on for my application, I had not been worried to much lately because even if the menu entries were not showing, basic functions could be called with the icons and it is working (and I found a way to indirecly call the add-on bar through using them with a 3rd tool). At the moment the license server is causing me more issues
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Post by miciomax »

Timeout wrote:I managed to get the patch compiling in the end last night.
I hoped it would solve my problem of the installation hanging because of a "page fault". (it's hanging just after calling the debugger) Unfortunately the hang was for me still there with the patch (I have a nvidia card too).

I found out that it went further using +relay after 2-3 min where it seemed nothing happened and the installation would complete successfully. A +relay is then pretty useless.

About the add-on for my application, I had not been worried to much lately because even if the menu entries were not showing, basic functions could be called with the icons and it is working (and I found a way to indirecly call the add-on bar through using them with a 3rd tool). At the moment the license server is causing me more issues
Well, you should tell me :
1) Which wine version do you have (git ? downloaded sources from somewhere ? )
I suggest you to fetch latest git as in tutorial
2) Don't forget to use winetricks and install dotnet2.0 and msxml3. Without first one the install crashes (it tries to install upgrade of dotnet 1.1 ....) and without the second (IIRC....) menus/toolbars do have problems.

Besides those (AND obviously the patches in wine...) my installation doesn't have problems, and autocad works good even with compiz enabled.
Ah, the native shlwapi.dll is needed JUST to show the register now dialog. If you works in demo mode, no need at all.

Ciao

Max
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Post by Timeout »

What I am saying has to be taken with a grain of salt: I have another application with some of the installer problem (because it seems to be sharing the same version of Installshield) as you and running on Visual Basic as you. That's the only common point to try to understand from each other. My app. is installing msxml4 on its own.

The autocad I have is a much older (98?) and had been patched and will not be supported by Wine so I won't comment on it.
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autocad

Post by ruelle »

miciomax
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Re: autocad

Post by miciomax »

Hope so :-)
OpenGL patch should be accepted by tomorrow, and I posted registry patch that solves 13838 bug.... which should the last one.
Once applied, autocad will be installable on wine without patches, just winetricks for dotnet 2.0 and msxml3, and shfolder.dll as native for the registration dialog.

Ready to switch to gold status :D

Next step (maybe...) will be to make 2008 version a bit more stable....

Max
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Post by ruelle »

yahoo!!:D :D :D :D :D :D

sei un grande max!!
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